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Reload this Page Jesus, the twelve and Paul of the NT are fiction.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:03 PM   #891
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In your rush to respond to the first part of my post, I think you forgot to read the second part.
I was rushing to ask you that question, when was the dead beloved teacher dead, in what century?
At the least, it's considered rude to ignore the person one is talking to and proceed with one's own agenda. If the point is to have a discussion. If the point is to make oneself look like an ass only interested in hearing himself talk, however, that tack succeeds brilliantly.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:05 PM   #892
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Let me see if I get this straight. When evaluating what either Tacitus or Matthew have to say about Christ or Christus, what is important is the English translation. Is that what you are saying?

Ben.
I evaluate what the translators present.
Which translators are these? And why are you not going to the original text of Josephus and Tacitus rather than translations of them?


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The translators of Annals 15.44 used the word "Christus", do you want to override them and put the word "Christ"?

The translators in Josephus used the word Christ instead of Christus at 18.3.3 and 20.9.1, do you want to single-handedly insert the word "Christus"?
What are the names of the translators of Tacitus and Josephus that you speak of?

Do all translators of Josephus and Tacitus into English do what "your" translators do? Does Michael Grant in his Penguin edition of The Annals of Imperial Rome? Does John Jackson, the translator of the Loeb edition of The Annals? You haven't bothered to check, have you?

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Old 04-21-2008, 03:21 PM   #893
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I was rushing to ask you that question, when was the dead beloved teacher dead, in what century?
At the least, it's considered rude to ignore the person one is talking to and proceed with one's own agenda. If the point is to have a discussion. If the point is to make oneself look like an ass only interested in hearing himself talk, however, that tack succeeds brilliantly.
That's an odd response to my question. It doesn't make you look good.

I find my question to be a fair one. You made a claim earlier that the simplest and most probable explanation is that Jesus was a dead beloved teacher with 12 scared guys and I asked when did this dead beloved teacher die.

Is there anything that I can ask you about the "dead beloved teacher and the scared guys"? I would really like to know about these guys.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:25 PM   #894
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At the least, it's considered rude to ignore the person one is talking to and proceed with one's own agenda. If the point is to have a discussion. If the point is to make oneself look like an ass only interested in hearing himself talk, however, that tack succeeds brilliantly.
That's an odd response to my question. It doesn't make you look good.
One can say the same about you -- and with more cause -- when you do not answer my questions to you.

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Old 04-21-2008, 03:29 PM   #895
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At the least, it's considered rude to ignore the person one is talking to and proceed with one's own agenda. If the point is to have a discussion. If the point is to make oneself look like an ass only interested in hearing himself talk, however, that tack succeeds brilliantly.
That's an odd response to my question. It doesn't make you look good.

I find my question to be a fair one. You made a claim earlier that the simplest and most probable explanation is that Jesus was a dead beloved teacher with 12 scared guys and I asked when did this dead beloved teacher die.

Is there anything that I can ask you about the "dead beloved teacher and the scared guys"? I would really like to know about these guys.
Well, this post is easy to write. Since there's nothing new to address, there's nothing more I need to say.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:31 PM   #896
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The translators of Annals 15.44 used the word "Christus", do you want to override them and put the word "Christ"?
It is not overriding the translator to use the translation instead of the transliteration. A translator gets to pick which he or she uses. Some will use the translation Vergil, others the transliteration Vergilius. Some will use the translation Jeremy, others the tranliteration Jeremiah. Some will use the translation Christ, others the transliteration Christus.

A dictionary will give you the translation; here is the Lewis & Short entry for Christus:
Christus , i, m., = Christos (the Anointed, Heb. ; cf. Lact. 4, 7, 7),

I. Christ, Tac. A. 15, 44 Rupert. ad loc.; Plin. Ep. 10, 97; and in the Church fathers very freq.
Do you see that? Do you see that the definition of the Latin word Christus is, in English, Christ?

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Old 04-21-2008, 03:35 PM   #897
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That's an odd response to my question. It doesn't make you look good.

I find my question to be a fair one. You made a claim earlier that the simplest and most probable explanation is that Jesus was a dead beloved teacher with 12 scared guys and I asked when did this dead beloved teacher die.

Is there anything that I can ask you about the "dead beloved teacher and the scared guys"? I would really like to know about these guys.
Well, this post is easy to write. Since there's nothing new to address, there's nothing more I need to say.
Well, that is exactly what I thought. You did not have any credible information about "the dead beloved teacher and the 12 scared guys".
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:40 PM   #898
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Well, that is exactly what I thought. You did not have any credible information about "the dead beloved teacher and the 12 scared guys".
How do you figure?
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Old 04-21-2008, 05:40 PM   #899
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I do not claim that the Annals calls him Jesus of Nazareth. I claim that the Christ in the Annals is the Jesus referred to in the gospels and the Pauline epistles.

Ben.
So you NEVER saw the word "Jesus" in "Annals".

And now, the word "Christ" is NOT in 'Annals", it is "Christus".

The translators of "Annals" used "Christus", why didn't they write "Christ"?

Your statement is mis-leading and erroneous, the word "Christ" is not in "Annals".

In Josephus, the word "Christ" is clearly used by the translators, why didn't they write "Christus"?


Annals 15.44

Amtiquities of the Jews 18.3.3

Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1
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....who was called Christ....
And of course the names "Pericles," "Alexander," "Socrates" and "Aristotle" don't appear in any Greek text from antiquity, and couldn't since these are English versions of the names, and English didn't exist yet.

Honestly, aa58, this is among the worse arguments you have ever made in your scorched-earth battle against the historicity of the NT.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:22 PM   #900
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So you NEVER saw the word "Jesus" in "Annals".

And now, the word "Christ" is NOT in 'Annals", it is "Christus".

The translators of "Annals" used "Christus", why didn't they write "Christ"?

Your statement is mis-leading and erroneous, the word "Christ" is not in "Annals".

In Josephus, the word "Christ" is clearly used by the translators, why didn't they write "Christus"?


Annals 15.44

Amtiquities of the Jews 18.3.3

Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1
And of course the names "Pericles," "Alexander," "Socrates" and "Aristotle" don't appear in any Greek text from antiquity, and couldn't since these are English versions of the names, and English didn't exist yet.

Honestly, aa58, this is among the worse arguments you have ever made in your scorched-earth battle against the historicity of the NT.
Absolute nonsense. You have no idea of history, they are all tendentious narratives to you.
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