spin

The basic split is seen as Japheth = Europe, Ham = Africa and Shem = Fertile Crescent. Only Ham tended to get the bad guys: Canaan, for example, the group culturally closest to the Hebrews is put in Ham to make the case that they usurped the Hebrew land (let's exterminate 'em).


spin

Chris Weimer

:rolling:
What is there to be said, spin, that you haven't already said. Anyways, Uranus, originally oeranus, from oiranos, which makes the PIE something like *oerone, with the oe sounding something like German "ü", and the ending similar to *snorus...

Per Ahlberg

Interesting discussion! 'Course, the Germanic languages (including English) have their own version of this old sky father - and once again his name can also mean god in general. The (reconstructed) common Germanic form is "Tiwaz", if I remember rightly, which becomes "Theow" in Anglo-saxon and "Tivr", then "Tyr", in the Norse languages. An almost forgotten figure in the Norse pantheon by the time the pagan myths came to be written down in the 13th century, he nevertheless gave his name to Tuesday.

In Latvian he's called Dievs. Durable character...


Cheers, Per

spin

And naturally from the same source as Greek dios, Latin deus, Zeus, Jove, Dyaus-(pitar (Jupiter)). Too bad the day of the sky god Jove is Thursday, the day of the sky god Thor.


spin

Thor was riding across the sky in his usual braggard fashion telling everyone in earshot, "I'm Thor! I'm Thor!" until someone on the ground said, "Well, I hope you're thatithfied. I'd be thor if I did that all day."

spin

Yawn. Snore you? You ain't been round when I'm asleep -- thank heavens neither have I.

There's a strong connection between this high rounded vowel (and it's back equivalent /u/) and labial consonants such as /w/ and /v/. Hence the relation between the /v/ of Varuna and the /u/ of Uranus. (Just think of the waw in Hebrew being both equivalent to the vowel /u/ and the consonant /w/.)


spin

Jedi Mind Trick

:rolling:

Per Ahlberg

Hi Spin,

Yes, there's an interesting mismatch between linguistic identity (Tyr=Jove) and week-day identification (Tyr=Mars, Woden/Odin=Jove) which presumably tells us something about the evolving attributes of these gods. Have you got any information on when the Latin and Germanic week-day names were established? I would guess the Latin versions are the originals, and that the Germanic equivalents were deviced when the 7-day week was introduced to us heathens along with christianity, but I don't really know. Certainly Odin seems to be a relative latecomer in the Germanic pantheon, despite his latter-day role as Allfather.


Hmm, I seem to remember a much ruder version of this, involving one of those divine/mortal love affairs so beloved of the classical authors. Perhaps not one for a family website...


Cheers, Per

Per Ahlberg

Whoops! That should of course have been "Thor=Jove", not "Woden/Odin=Jove". Can't get the days of the week right... Still, the basic argument holds.

P.

Chris Weimer

Eh? What's your point? The 'u' in uranus actually came from the Greek "oiranos" and the Latin shift from "oe" to "u" took place, like poenio and punio etc... But yes, the u and the v, which are actually the same letter in Latin, are phonetically related, as is the "oe" and the "u" in Latin, which...what's your point!?!?!