Angrillori

In another thread here someone alluded to numerous prophecies of Judaism that the messiah explicitly is supposed to fulfill, which Jesus did not.

That's an angle I hadn't thought of before. Obviously the supposed prophecies that Jesus is claimed by Christians to HAVE fulfilled are generally a load of rubbish, (hands pierced/dog's bites, virgin/young woman, and so on) but what ones did he miss?

Is there a: "The messiah/anointed one/christ will live for 62 years and have 6 arms," prophecy that obviously Jesus didn't fulfill? I think that would be a useful thing for me to know.

Thanks for the help!

Diogenes the Cynic

He has to be Jewish.
He has to be a direct patrilineal descendant of David through Solomon.
He has to be of the tribe of Judah.
He has to rebuild the Temple.
He has to bring all the Jews back to Israel.
He has to cause the world to worship one God.
He has to bring world peace.

If he fails to meet even one of these requirements, he isn't the Jewsh Messiah. Please note that Jesus fulfilled exactly one of the these requirements. He was Jewish.

JoeWallack

JW:
Only on his mother's side.



Joseph

Diogenes the Cynic

Chili

You mean his fathers side.

Mary was from Nazareth that did not even exist to leave Mary without an 'existence of being.' Mary was the undefiled womb that was taken from the man called Joseph who was not only a Jew but he was an upright Jew. Out of this wo[mb]man the inner man was reborn here called Christ to give Joseph a dual identity with the son-of-man identity being the "flesh of flesh and bone of bones" of the "man" who was created in the image of God before he was banned from Eden and was named Joseph in his fallen sin nature.

So, the son-of-man identity was reborn from his "mother's side" and Jesus-the-Jew was the old human identity from his father's side that had to be crucified in the gospels to set the reborn son-of-man identity free.

The six armed 62 year old anointed one was Joseph after he crucified his own ego identity and became the united trinity wherein the son is one with the father and the mother crowned queen of heaven and earth.

Joseph was about 38 when the messiah was born unto him. If you add 62 years to this the second death came his way when he was about 100 years old.

Dave Roberts

So his father was Joseph? :huh:
Is that what you believe? :thumbs:

Chili

. . . and he shall be called Jesus. It just means that Joseph was "born again" just as we know it with the only difference that this rebirth was incipient from God instead of carnal desire. This difference is explained in Jn.1:13 and is most unlike our "altar call" situations.

In this interpretation Jesus did fulfill all requirements.

He has to be Jewish.

The human identity unto whom the messiah was born was Joseph the Jew.

He has to be a direct patrilineal descendant of David through Solomon.
He has to be of the tribe of Judah.

Just look at the recorded lineage of Matthew.

He has to rebuild the Temple.

He did in John. The temple to be destroyed was the collective consciousness of Judaism within the mind of Joseph. We can call this faith being brought to understanding and this took place in the Gospels after the hypostatic union caused the father to become one with the son (because the veil was rent between the conscious and subconscious mind of Joseph), and until all doubt was removed after the resurrection of the Jewish Jesus identity of Joseph who so becomes Lord and God (Jesus in the particular and Christ in the universal).

So the destruction is the take down of Judaism in the subconscious mind and rebuilding it in the conscious mind now called the New Jerusalem to which the celestial sea was added in comprehension ("the sea was no longer" in the New Heaven and New Earth, Rev.21:1; the sea was the heart of woman here called Mary).

He has to bring all the Jews back to Israel.

Sanity must prevail while no doubt shall remain = Peter defrocked and Thomas
convinced. It must be understood here that it was a metaphysical event and no more. The Gospels describe the metaphysics of metamorphosis of which the details are archetypal and therefore predictable if you know the archetype.

He has to cause the world to worship one God.

This just means that his New World was the same as heaven on earth wherein Joseph is of one mind and has Free Will.

He has to bring world peace.

There is peace in his mind because Herod and Pilate became friends, John took Mary theotokos under his care (she was the driving force behind it all) to become the third person of the united trinity (with six arms).

Daniel

Mr. Aardvark

Isn't the usual apologetic to claim that whatever prophecies Christ didn't fulfill in his first coming, he will in his second? This, of course, makes the entire “2nd coming� claim seem like an invention of necessity: since Jesus didn’t completely fit the bill the first time, a second coming had to be invented to make the claim to his messiahship passable.

Leaving aside the thorny problem what should really count as OT prophecies of a messiah, I have wondered if there is any evidence from ancient scholarship of the OT that the Messiah would have two comings?

Fr.Andrew

I don't think there is anything in Judaism about a 2nd coming. Here's a good read.