stephan huller

FWIW I have long argued that the original gospel was Diatessaron-like and then - through some process I haven't exactly figured out - the narrative was 'broken out' into the four canonical texts. In this way the specific forms Matthew, Mark, Luke and John come from an ur-form (witnessed by the repeated formula in various Diatessaron texts of taking the first letter from Matthew, the second letter from MaRk, the third letter from LuQa and the fourth letter from JonA to spell MRQA = Mark).

The reason why this is significant is that I think - since Luke especially is an artificial creation, the specific - and critical - opening lines of Luke were IMO originally Johannine. Hence the similarities between the introductions of 1 John and Luke in our NT and why 1 John precedes the citations of the Diatessaronic gospel here. I think 1 John was originally a letter of introduction to the collection as a whole.

The reason why I mention this is that I think the community of the Epistula could have used Acts but with their unique Diatessaron - almost certainly done 'in the name of John' (see above). Maybe this Acts was the same 'Acts' mentioned by Epiphanius as being a heretical variant in the hands of the Nazarenes (or whatever he called them).

I am just saying that Vinzent's testimony forces us to broaden the permutations and combinations that 'work' here.

aa5874

It was an extremely simple task to deduce that the Pauline writings were Forgeries carried out sometime after c 180 CE.

Once we examine Acts of the Apostles, the Only Canonised story of Saul/Paul, it becomes clear that Saul/Paul wrote NO letters at all up to c 62 CE.

Once we examine any supposed early source that mentions Paul it is found that there is NO admission that Saul/Paul wrote letters before c 62 CE.

An anonymous letter attributed to Clement of Rome mentions Paul but NOTHING about the date of authorship.

Early Pauline Letters to Churches before c 62 CE is unevidenced and without corroboration.

All the Letters to Churches in the Canon that bear the name Paul are Forgeries or INVENTED after the time of Irenaeus.

Up to 180 CE, the so-called Seven Letters to the Churches by Paul were NOT yet composed and NOT yet known.

The abundance of evidence also support the argument that the writings called "Against Heresies" and "Against Marcion" are massive Forgeries carried out some time after the end of the 2nd century.

Bernard Muller

to Stephan,

One detail: in Luke 24:36-43, the disciples are invited to touch Jesus but it is not written they do that. Also in John 20:26-29, Thomas initially wants to touch Jesus but it is not told he does that. Actually 20:29 implies that Thomas is satisfied just to only see Jesus.
This is not what an anti-docetist writer would forget to add (that is the touching).

However, during the Docetist era, the resurrected Jesus is touched in EpAp by the disciples, as also he is in the Ignatian letter to the Smyraeans (I dated the Ignatian epistles 125-145).

Cordially, Bernard

aa5874

1. The Ignatian letters do NOT at all mention the Seven letters to Churches under the name of Paul.

2 . The Ignatian letters do NOT at all mention that Paul wrote letters to Seven Churches BEFORE c 62 CE.

3. In the Ignatian letter to Ephesians it is implied Paul wrote to the Ephesians however Scholars have deduce that the Pauline author of the letter to the Ephesians is NOT the author of Epistle Romans.

4. No Ignatian letter has been found and dated to the 1st century.

Early Pauline letters is derived from Presumptions, Imagination and Speculation.

aa5874

1. The Ignatian letters do NOT at all mention the Seven letters to Churches under the name of Paul.

2 . The Ignatian letters do NOT at all mention that Paul wrote letters to Seven Churches BEFORE c 62 CE.

3. In the Ignatian letter to Ephesians it is implied Paul wrote to the Ephesians however Scholars have deduce that the Pauline author of the letter to the Ephesians is NOT the author of Epistle Romans.

4. No Ignatian letter has been found and dated to the 1st century.

Early Pauline letters are derived from Presumptions, Imagination and Speculation.

jakejonesiv

How did Paul die?

maryhelena

The NT story does not say.....

And outside of that NT story - evidence, please, that he lived as a man of flesh and blood...

jakejonesiv

No, we can't sidestep the question that easily. Even myths or legends may be presumed to die. Jesus Christ was crucified, John the Baptist was beheaded, etc.

So the question remains, How did Paul die?

jakejonesiv

According to the early heretical sect the Algoi, Cerinthus was the true author of the Gospel of John and Book of Revelation. This fits well with Rev 1:1 where the book is given by an angel. The Letters to the Seven Churches (contained in Revelation chapters 2 and 3) were written by Cerinthus.

Cerinthus' hatred for all things Pauline is well established. When we look at the practices targeted by the Letters to the Seven Churches, many of the things point by point are accusations thrown at Paul. Even the letter format itself is a reflection of "Paul" who is the preminent apostle who manifests himself by letters. So while the Pauline Corinthian Epistles reflect the dispute with the Cerinthians from the Pauline perspective, the Letters to the Seven Churches represent the opposing view.

The letters attack "those who call themselves apostles, and they are not" and are found to be false (Rev 2:2). This is precisley the charge answered by 1 Cor. 9:1-2 "Am I am not an apostle? If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you."

The letters attack "the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not." (Rev 2:9). Compare that with "And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;" 1 Cor. 9:20.

'For instance, I have held that the reference in Rev. ii. 8 to " the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan," is to the Pauline or other Gentilising Jew-Christists. ' _A Short History of Christianity_ , Preface, John M. Robertson.

The letters opposes those who "commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols." (Rev 2:20). On these subjects (including the eating of things sacrificed to idols 1 Cor 10:19) we read "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." 1 Cor. 10:23.

One of the Revelation letters is to Laodicea. It is well known that one of Marcion's Pauline epistles was addressed to the Laodiceans, subsequently known as the Epistle to the Ephesians.

Jake Jones IV

maryhelena

You tell me - I've no idea...

Ah - trick question.....:notworthy:

Paul lives in the pages of his epistles.....:thumbs:

Nice....