No Robots

Another related new work is The Jewish Jesus: Revelation, Reflection, Reclamation.

Toto

... the forthcoming Jesus among the Jews: Representation and Thought (or via: amazon.co.uk)

$114 Canadian or $124 US

stephan huller

The Jewish testimonies about Jesus may be problematic, corrupt and perplexing but they aren't entirely worthless. The difficulties are common to all rabbinic historical testimonies. Was Nero actually a proselyte? No certainly not. But why did such a tradition emerge? It is a fascinating question. So too Judah's relationship with “Antoninus”. Who was this Emperor? What is being said here? It's all quite fascinating really

jakejonesiv

The quotation begins with the assumption this man and you do not even recognize it???? No wonder these discussions go on forever; some historists seem to be blind to their own assumptions.

Indeed, which, if any, of the worthies to whom you appeal actually discuss the issue at hand, the historical existence of Jesus? My guess is scant few.

Instead, we seem to have a group of Jewish scholars who naively assume the existence of Jesus, and then attempt to portray him (and Paul!) in a light that is most congenial to modern Jewish sensibilities.

If Jesus is seen as a good Jew, perhaps just slightly eccentric, but a good Jew nonetheless, then the subsequent history of the Christian Church is a misrepresentation of Judaism. Hey, no more antisemitism! A laudable goal, but a very poor methodolgy for determining history.

(And it is also not true. Christianity is a cuckoo in the Jewish nest, but that is for another thread).

No Robots

On the contrary, the issue has been thoroughly dealt with by Jewish scholars. I give just one notable example:

And when we look afresh into all that has been said of these three [Gospels, Jesus, and Christianity], during the first twenty years of this century, we come to the conclusion that nearly all the many Christian scholars, and even the best of them, who have studied the subject deeply, have tried their hardest to find in the historic Jesus something which is not Judaism; but in his actual history they have found nothing of this whatever, since this history is reduced almost to zero. It is therefore no wonder that at the beginning of this century there has been a revival of the eighteenth and nineteenth century view that Jesus never existed.--Jesus of Nazareth: His life, times, and teaching / Joseph Klausner, p. 105.

Mythicism is simply the end point of what has been described as "the ultimate Western fantasy - that Christ had not, in fact, been a Jew" (Colonial Desire: Hybridity in Theory, Culture, and Race / Robert Young, p. 85). I choose not to subscribe to this fantasy.

jakejonesiv

That quotation contains no discussion of the issues or evidence, only a reiteration of the assumption that a Jewish Jesus is better than no Jesus. NO Robots, you are blind to your own assumptions.

No Robots

The point is that I am acting on the basis of my assumption, whether you find it valid or not; and I am finding enormous encouragement in contemporary scholarship. You can bleat all you want, but in the end you are like a guy telling Columbus that he hasn't proved that the Earth is round so he has no valid reason to sail westward. What you don't seem to realize is that, in my case and in the case of most scholars, the Santa Maria has already sailed. Save your breath for somebody stuck on the shore who might fall for your fantasies.

stephan huller

Tertullian reports an early Jewish tradition that Jesus was a Samaritan which seems to be known by the author of John

Perspicuo

Sounds like this Jesus character was a subject of a Chinese whispers game. To decide upon any particular conception of Jesus seems like taking the game as reality.

Since people all around have this Jesus religion, it's an easy target for anyone with a philosophical agenda to hijack and make it a posterboy for their ideas... a character whose characteristics are so debated on zero evidence save for hearsay and writings that atribute anything from superpowers and miracles to signs of illegitamacy to downright malevolence. In short, the historical Jesus could be anything between a divinity and a bastard religious peddler of little importance. The new (non-traditional) idea is that there is not strong evidence that a Jesus Christ ever existed at all, which, in this context, doesn't sound like such a bad idea, given the says-so situation of every ancient text on the figure.

jakejonesiv

No meanigful response, peppered with insults, followed by withdrawl to comforting circles where your cherished assumptions are not questioned.

I'll take that as you waving the white flag.:wave: