Thesouphead

ok...so I am pretty much a newbie when it comes to the Bible, so please excuse me if this is an ignroatn question.

Doesn't God's killing of the Egyptians(first borns and parting of the sea) in Exodus contradict God giving human's free will?

Please help. Thanks

MiddleMan

Humans dont' have freewill in a Omni-max God-controlled universe. It isn't limited just to the Exodus.

Thesouphead

So what you are syaing is that the whole "free will" thing is a fallacy in itself?

I think I get what you are saying. But to those who don't see it that way, isn't the above situation that I posted a contradiction?

This is direct interference from God where he is punishing people by death before he judges them after death?

Ojuice5001

I don't know if you could necessarily say that. It could just mean that God gave life and free will to these Egyptians, and then took them both back on a tyrant's whim.

A bigger threat to the idea that the God portrayed in Exodus respects free will is the fact that Exodus 4:21 says he hardened the heart of Pharaoh. Since God is trying to set the Israelites free, it surely doesn't make any sense that he would want Pharoah to be more stubborn. After all, the plagues of Egypt were supposed to change Pharoah's mind and make him willing to let the Israelites go free. So of course he'd be working against that goal by hardening Pharoah's heart. And working against your own goals is one accepted goal of irrationality, so we can tell that this little line has unfavorable implications for the idea that the God of the Bible is rational. :bulb:

WishboneDawn

He gave us free will but he can still kill us.

It might help if you looked at the Bible as a collection of books and stories rather then as something that should be read front to back and maintian some sense of consistency. Some of what's in there, like the 2nd Genesis story you refer to is pretty old stuff from oral tradition. Some of it is poetry, some histories (not in any objective modern sense of the word). Some is simply meant to basically support land claims of the ancient Hebrews. And always keep in mind it was written by men, often with very earthly agendas.

If you're a Christian I think the Hebrew scriptures can definately inform your spirituality. If not, it's still a good read (just for the gore!). Sometimes. I have the Oxford NRS edition and it's got great footnotes to get you through the bits that lag and repeat themselves. I'd definately reccomend it. It's not a Bible that fundamentalists will like however.