Kapyong

Gday all,

The Vision of Isaiah is part of a larger work called the Ascension of Isaiah. The AoI is Christian work from probably the 2nd C. It has a story of Jesus descending through the heavens to be crucified. Unfortunately it is a highly variant work with many interpolations and differences. I discuss the MSS issue below.

Doherty claims it is evidence for a mythicist Jesus who descended only as far as the firmament (and Sheol) but NOT to Earth. G.Don points out certain features that suggest there WAS an earthly component. Here is what I found.

Isaiah's Ascent
On the way up, we get this description of what is about to happen -

"(7):9. And we ascended to the firmament, I and he, and there I saw Satan and his hosts, and there was great fighting therein and the angels of Satan were envying one another. 10. And as above so on the earth also; for the likeness of that which is in the firmament is here on the earth. 11. And I said unto the angel "what is this envying?" 12. And he said unto me: "So has it been since this world was made until now, and this war (will continue) till He [Jesus], whom thou shalt see will come and destroy him [Satan].""

Note that here a pair of corresponding Platonic planes is specifically mentioned (As Above So On the Earth) : Firmament - Earth. On Earth we find a "likeness" of what is in the firmament.
It is made clear to Isaiah while in the firmament, that Satan (who is there in the firmament) will be "destroyed" by Jesus - apparently in the firmament.
No mention of Earth in Jesus' work. Clearly Jesus will be acting in the firmament.

The Crucifixion described
The crucifixion (and descent to Sheol) is described Ch.9 :

"(9):14. And the god of that world [Satan] will stretch forth his hand against the Son, and they will hang Him upon a tree and kill him, and will slay Him not knowing who He is. 15. And thus His descent, as you will see, will be hidden even from the heavens, so that it will not be known who He is. 16. And when He hath plundered the angel of death, He will ascend on the third day 17. And then many of the righteous will ascend with Him, whose spirits do not receive their garments till the Lord Christ ascend and they ascend with Him."

We see that Satan will unknowingly crucify Jesus in the firmament, Jesus will then descend to Sheol to plunder the angel of death and bring back the (spirits of the) righteous.
No mention of any earthly visit there.


The Commission from God.
Christ is commissioned to travel through all the heavens and Sheol :

"(10):8 Go forth and descend through all the heavens, and thou wilt descent to the firmament and that world: to the angel in Sheol thou wilt descend, but to Haguel thou wilt not go."

No mention of Earth in the list of travels.

And he shall take the various likenesses of the heavens, the firmament, and Sheol :

"(10):9. And thou wilt become like unto the likeness of all who are in the five heavens. 10. And thou wilt be careful to become like the form of the angels of the firmament and the angels also who are in Sheol."

No mention of Earth in the list of likenesses.

But his identity will be secret from angels and heavens

"(10):11. And none of the angels of that world shall know that Thou art with Me of the seven heavens and of their angels. 12. And they shall not know that Thou art with Me, till with a loud voice I have called (to) the heavens, and their angels and their lights, (even) unto the sixth heaven, in order that you mayest judge and destroy the princes and angels and gods of that world, and the world that is dominated by them:"

No mention of Earth in the list of secrets.

Also note that the task Jesus has to do (once he is called) is to destroy the princes etc. (i.e. Satan and cohorts) of that world - i.e. the firmament. No mention of any earthly task.

Afterwards he will ascend from the Gods of death through the heavens :

"14. And afterwards from the angels of death Thou wilt ascend to Thy place. And Thou wilt not be transformed in each heaven, but in glory wilt Thou ascend and sit on My right hand."

No mention of Earth in the ascent phase.


The Descent.
We see the descent through all the heavens, in which Jesus takes on the likeness or form of each of the various heavens on the way, finally descending from the lowest heaven, through the firmament, to the Air beneath - where he was made like the angels of the Air :

"29. And again He descended into the firmament where dwelleth the ruler of this world, and He gave the password to those on the left, and His form was like theirs, and they did not praise Him there; but they were envying one another and fighting; for here there is a power of evil and envying about trifles. 30. And I saw when He descended and made Himself like unto the angels of the air, and He was like one of them. 31. And He gave no password; for one was plundering and doing violence to another."

(Around that point an interpolation breaks in (Slav and Lat2 omit it), we will pick up the story again at (11):23 with the ascent phase beginning. )

It's quite clear - Satan will crucify Jesus, not on earth, but in the firmament. Then Jesus will descend to Sheol for 3 days, and return with many of the righteous (i.e. presumably their souls.)
There is no earthly part to this story at all.


Finally - the Ascent.
We see the ascent phase begin - Christ has returned from the Air to the firmament but now his identity is open and Satan is sorrowful that they did not percieve it on the way down :

"(11):23. And I saw [Him], and He was in the firmament, but He had not changed Himself into their form, and all the angels of the firmament and the Satans saw Him and they worshipped. 24. And there was much sorrow there, while they said: "How did our Lord descend in our midst, and we perceived not the glory, which we see has been upon Him from the sixth heaven?""

No mention of Earth anywhere at the bottom of the ascent - the lowest we heard of was the Air.

The ascent finishes up through the heavens again - nothing earthly.


Critical MSS Variations.

There are two main families of MSS being considered here :
* the main Ethiopic MSS family
* the Slavonic and Latin2 MSS (very similar.)
The Ethiopic MSS family has certain additions and expansions, compared to the Slav. and Lat2 MSS as follows -

1. The whole of (11):2-22 (a nativity story) is not found in Slav and Lat2, and is clearly an addition that adds a simple Jesus earthly incarnation episode.

2. Then, in Chapter 9, there is crucial passage, which G.Don has cited as evidence against a mythical interpretation

"[12... until the Beloved descends in the form in which you will see him descend. 13. The Lord will indeed descend [into the world] in the last days who is to be called Christ after he has descended and become like you in form, and they will think that He is flesh and is a man.]"

This section clearly seems to have replaced a shorter passage in MSS Slav and Lat2 :

"when he descends and is like you in form"

This addition serves to add an earthly layer, to a mythicist original. Even then to "think that he is" flesh and a man still implies he isn't actually so - it's hardly evidence for earthly descent of Jesus.

3. A further historicist interpolation can be found with "into the world" above - not found in most of the Ethiopic MSS. Another addition that serves to add a worldly connection where none was present before.

4. There are two more historicist changes discussed below as well.

So we can see several examples where the Ethiopic MSS have passages which are added to or longer than the Slav and Lat2 MSS. Several of these passages serve to specifically add an earthly layer to the story.

It is much more likely that passages are ADDED, not subtracted, so this seems clear evidence that an early version of this book had NO such rearthly references.
(Otherwise it would mean some editor has REMOVED several earthly bits - and who would do that except a mythicist?)

Either way - this is evidence that one MSS tradition was mythicist in form - with NO descent to Earth. Like Doherty says.


Where is Jesus made like a man ?

G.Don points out that when the descent is initially prophesied - it is said that Jesus will descend to resemble [Isaiah's] form and likeness - i.e. that he WILL descend as far as Earth and take on the form of a man, so therefore somewhere in the descent he must make it to earth.

"(8):9. And that thou mayest see the Lord of all those heavens and these thrones. 10. Undergoing (successive) transformation until He resembles your form and likeness.
26. ...for those who trust in that Lord who will descend in your form."

He isn't !
It turns out that BOTH those earthly bits are also missing from the Slav. and Lat2 MSS tradition. There is NO such expectation of an earthly form in that MSS tradition.

In other words - all the passages that G.Don points to as referring to an earthly bit, are only found in one MSS tradition. There is another MSS tradition which does NOT have these earthly bits.


Summary -
At least one of the MSS traditions is a mythical descent of Jesus down thru the heavens to the firmament, (and the Air); followed by crucifixion in the firmament, a 3 day descent to Sheol, and his re-ascent back to heaven. (The only earthly parts are missing from one MSS tradition entirely suggesting they have been ADDED by someone editor who disagreed with the mythicist version.)
Earth is not mentioned, the journey clearly did not include earth.

Doherty is right - this IS (at least in one MSS tradition) an example of a mythicist text in which Jesus descends NOT to earth but to the firmament.


Kapyong

Kapyong

And here is my picture of course :-)

The location of Sheol is confusing - I have put it beneath the Firmament as the best fit (some ancient authors saw it that way apparently.)



I have also shown the Platonic pair which is explicitly mentioned in the text :

• that which is in the firmament
• the likeness, on earth, of that which is in firmament

There is no doubt where the real and the likeness are -
the original is in the firmament
the likeness is on Earth
Crystal clear in that case G.Don.

(Not that it means all such cases are located like that.)


K.

GakuseiDon

Hi Kapyong. Good post!
I don't think that this is an example of Platonic counterparts. I can't imagine any scenario where the upper counterpart is represented by demons. Simply: people on earth envy, the demons envy. I suggest it is a reference to an earlier passage in AoI that talks about Christians envying each other. The author is making a point that such Christians emulate the demons rather than Christ.

But is that the case? Does not Christ descend **below** the firmament, and become like the angels of the air? This appears to be in all versions.

"Like you in form" still needs to be explained. According to the document I am working from, it is in all versions. The rest of AoI gives the form in different locations. AFAICS the form is given in each location, and none of them allow for a human form -- certainly not in the firmament nor in the air.

Anti-docetists would want to add "flesh" to the description. I agree that parts were added -- the gospel-like narrative, for one. This sounds like the hand of orthodoxy. But then why leave in any mythicist-sounding passages? If the mythicist-sounding passages were ambiguous enough to pass for orthodox (e.g. the passage with Satan having "he" or "them" crucify Christ on a tree) how do we determine whether they are in fact mythicist passages?

We can't judge how they wrote by what we expect. There were lots of letters where they left out virtually all details about Christ -- think of the Shepherd of Hermas, for example. I think the lack of details about an earthly sojourn is less of a concern than many make out.

I've worked from Charles version here, though it is hard to follow which parts are found in the Slavonic, in the Latin and Greek versions. Do you have something a little easier to understand in English translation?

According to the Charles document, it IS in the Slav. And "in your form" appears to be in all versions. So it is still there.

If all that is the case, then I think it is a powerful argument in Doherty's arsenal. It would be the first document that I know where it is even hypothetical positive data for his "World of Myth". However, it doesn't mesh with the Charles document, which uses the extant Ethiopian version and indicates additions/removals within other versions via footnotes. If you could supply a clean English version showing the manuscript that supports Doherty's WoM, that would be very useful.

andrewcriddle

The different versions of this text are available at Ascension of Isaiah

Andrew Criddle

GakuseiDon

Thanks Andrew!

Kapyong, I had a look at the Slavonic and L2 versions, though they were in Latin side-by-side. They both include "et erit in specie vestra" at 9.14 which according to the online Latin-English translator means something like "and will be in your form". So it does appear to be in those early versions also. If that is the case, my question still stands: where does this happen in AoI?

GakuseiDon

Andrew, thanks again for the link. Can you confirm something for me on the L2 and Slavonic texts reproduced in Charles' pdf, please?

Doherty writes:

At this point we can consider the earlier phrase in verse 13, noted above, which is not present in the Latin/Slavonic manuscripts: "(he) who is to be called Christ after he has descended and become like you in form and they will think that he is flesh and a man." (Page 122)

However, looking at Charles' Slavonic and L2 texts, it appears that part of 9.13 is in fact there (top of page 201 in the pdf), which is "... descend and will be like you in form". Am I correct in this?

DCHindley

From what I can gather, the translations Charles had access to were Ethiopic (E) and Latin 1 (L¹), Slavonic (S) and Latin 2 (L²). He believes E & L¹ derive from Greek recension 1 (G¹), a recension of G in the 'Ascension,' with some hundreds of its phrases preserved in Gk. Legend of Isaiah. He believes (S) and (L²) derived from an alternate Greek recension 2 (G²), a lost recension of G in independent form. Both G¹ & G² are derived from a common Greek original edition (G), the "Greek Vision of Isaiah before its incorporation in the ' Ascension.' Used by Ignatius, and the writer of the Actus Petri ix. 35, 36, and in part preserved in Epiphanius.

Dizzy yet?

Much is being made of the fact that S & L² omit chapter xi. 2-22a. According to Charles "S L² agree in more or less large additions in vii. 37, viii. 3, ix. 15, 16, 17, 20, 23, 29, 36, 42, x. 15, xi. 34, 36, 40. Again, they agree in giving short summaries instead of the Ethiopic text of x. 25-28, xi. 27-30, and especially in omitting the very important passage in E, i.e. xi. 2-22, with the exception of a single phrase in xi. 19."

Chapter xi. 2-22 contain a description of Christ's birth, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection. However, according to R H Charles' Introduction:

[[F]]rom the command which Isaiah hears given to Christ to descend to the earth and to Sheol (x. 8), and afterwards to ascend therefrom (x. 14), we naturally expect Isaiah to witness these events in the vision in xi., seeing that he witnesses all else that is mentioned in x. 8-14. But the genuineness of xi. 2-22 [[from longer Greek version G1]] is still more apparent, if we consider that … from ix. 13-17 we cannot do otherwise than expect a definite portrayal of these events [the crucifixion, descent into Sheol, and resurrection on the third day] in the vision. Thus in the latter passage [ix. 13-17] it is told that Christ will descend to earth and assume human form ; that owing to the instigation of the prince of this world men will rise up against Him and crucify Him, 'not knowing who He is.' Thereupon He will descend into Sheol (this clause is [[otherwise]] peculiar to S L2) and rise again on the third day—and send out His Twelve Apostles (this last clause is [[otherwise]]peculiar to S L2)—and ascend into heaven. Now if we turn to xi. 2-22 this is just what Isaiah sees in vision: Christ is born of the Virgin, but the nature of the birth is to be told to none (xi. 3-16). Then He works great miracles and the Jews roused by the adversary crucify Him in Jerusalem, ' not knowing who He is.' Thereupon He descends into Sheol (xi. 18-20). And on the third day He rises again and sends forth His Twelve Apostles and ascends into heaven (xi. 21, 22).

In other words, there are other places in the Ascension of Isaiah which are preserved in S & L² which anticipate or predict the information about Jesus' earthly life in Chapter xi. 2-22.

So here it is, in all its glory, including all the passages referenced above. Pay close attention, as Christ is described as descending from the 7th heaven, hiding his identity from the 5th on down, until he reaches the 1st heaven, then the firmament, and finally through the "air" (even though an earlier passage did not distinguish a region of "air" within the firmament). This is all in S & L². Without xi. 2-22 Christ is immediately ascending back up into the firmament and through the heavens in a glorified state, which seems to suggest S & L² have omitted it either by accident or on purpose.

Chapter ix. 12-13. And he said unto me : ' Crowns and thrones of glory they [[the righteous]] do not receive, till the Beloved will descend in the form in which you will see Him descend [will descend, I say] into the world in the last days the Lord, who will be called Christ. Nevertheless they see and know whose will be thrones, and whose the crowns when He has descended, and been made in your form, and they will think that He is flesh and is a man. 14. And the god of that world will stretch forth his hand against the Son, ^{and they will crucify Him on a tree}, and will slay Him not knowing who He is. 15. And thus His descent, as you will see, will be hidden even from the heavens, so that it will not be known who He is. 16. And when He hath plundered the angel of death. He will ascend on the third day, [and he will remain in that world five hundred and forty-five days]. 17. And then many of the righteous will ascend with Him, whose spirits do not receive their garments till the "Lord Christ" ascend and they ascend with Him.

…

Chapter x. 7. [7th Heaven] And I heard the voice of the Most High the Father of my Lord saying to my Lord Christ who will be called Jesus: 8. 'Go forth and descend through all the heavens, and thou wilt descend to the firmament and that world: to the angel in Sheol thou wilt descend, but to Haguel [Abaddon or Gehenna in the sense of being the final abode of the lost] thou wilt not go. 9. And thou wilt become like unto the likeness of all who are in the five [[lower]] heavens. 10. And thou wilt be careful to become like the form of the angels of the firmament [and the angels also who are in Sheol]. 11. And none of the angels of that world shall know that Thou art Lord with Me of the seven heavens and of their angels. 12. And they shall not know that Thou art with Me, till with a loud voice I have called (to) the heavens, and their angels and their lights, (even) unto the sixth heaven, in order that you mayst judge and destroy the princes and angels and gods of that world, and the world that is dominated by them : 13. For they have denied Me and said : " We alone are and there is none beside us." 14. And afterwards from the angels of death Thou wilt ascend to Thy place, and Thou wilt not be transformed in each heaven, but in glory wilt Thou ascend and sit on My right hand. 15. And thereupon the princes and powers of that world will worship Thee.' 16. These commands I heard the Great Glory giving to) my Lord.

17. And so I saw my Lord go forth from the seventh heaven into the sixth heaven 18. And the angel who conducted me [from this world was with me and] said unto me: 'Understand, Isaiah, and see how the transformation and descent of the Lord will appear. 19. And I saw, and when the angels saw Him, '''thereupon those in the sixth heaven praised and lauded Him ; for He had not been transformed after the shape of the angels there, and they praised Him and I also praised with them.

20. And I saw when He descended into the fifth heaven, that in the fifth heaven He made Himself like unto the form of the angels there, and they did not praise Him (nor worship Him) ; for His form was like unto theirs.

21. And then He descended into the fourth heaven, and made Himself like unto the form of the angels there. 22. And when they saw Him, they did not praise or laud Him ; for His form was like unto their form.

23. And again I saw when He descended into the third heaven, and He made Himself like unto the form of the angels in the third heaven. 24. And those who kept the gate of the (third) heaven demanded the password, and the Lord gave (it) to them in order that He should not be recognized. And when they saw Him, they did not praise or laud Him ; for His form was like unto their form.

25. And again I saw when He descended into the second heaven, and again He gave the password there ; those who kept the gate proceeded to demand and the Lord to give. 26. And I saw when He made Himself like unto the form of the angels in the second heaven, and they saw Him and they did not praise Him ; for His form was like unto their form.

27. And again I saw when He descended into the first heaven, and there also He gave the password to those who kept the gate, and He made Himself like unto the form of the angels who were on the left of that throne, and they neither praised nor lauded Him; for His form was like unto their form. 28. But as for me no one asked me on account of the angel who conducted me.

29. And again He descended into the firmament where dwelleth the ruler of this world, and He gave the password to those on the left, and His form was like theirs, and they did not praise Him there ; but they were envying one another and fighting ; for here there is a power of evil and envying about trifles.

30. And I saw when He descended and made Himself like unto the angels of the air, and He was like one of them. 31. And He gave no password ; for one was plundering and doing violence to another.

Chapter xi. 1. After this I saw, and the angel who spoke with me, who conducted me, said unto me : ' Understand, Isaiah son of Amoz ; for for this purpose have I been sent from God.'

2. And I indeed saw a woman of the family of David the prophet, named Mary, a Virgin, and she was espoused to a man named Joseph, a carpenter, and he also was of the seed and family of the righteous David of Bethlehem Judah. 3. And he came into his lot. And when she was espoused, she was found with child, and Joseph the carpenter was desirous to put her away. 4. But the angel of the Spirit appeared in this world, and after that Joseph did not put her away, but kept Mary and did not reveal this matter to any one. 5. And he did not approach Mary, but kept her as a holy virgin, though with child. 6. And he did not live with her for two months. 7. And after two months of days while Joseph was in his house, and Mary his wife, but both alone, 8. It came to pass that when they were alone that Mary straightway looked with her eyes and saw a small babe, and she was astonied. 9. And after she had been astonied, her womb was found as formerly before she had conceived. 10. And when her husband Joseph said unto her : ' What has astonied thee ? ' his eyes were opened and he saw the infant and praised God, because into his portion God had come. 11. And a voice came to them : ' Tell this vision to no one.' 12,. And the story regarding the infant was noised abroad in Bethlehem. 13. Some said : ' The Virgin Mary hath borne a child, before she was married two months.' 14. And many said: 'She has not borne a child, nor has a midwife gone up (to her), nor have we heard the cries of (labour) pains.' And they were all blinded respecting Him and they all knew regarding Him, though they knew not whence He was. 15. And they took Him, and went to Nazareth in Galilee. 16. And I saw, O Hezekiah and Josab my son, and I declare to the other prophets also who are standing by, that (this) hath escaped all the heavens and all the princes and all the gods of this world. 17. And I saw: In Nazareth He sucked the breast as a babe and as is customary in order that He might not be recognized. 18. And when He had grown up He worked great signs and wonders in the land of Israel and of Jerusalem. 19a. And after this the adversary envied Him and roused the children of Israel against Him,

not knowing who He was [[this line is in S & L²]],

and they delivered Him to the king, and crucified Him,

19b. and He descended to the angel (of Sheol). 20. In Jerusalem indeed I saw Him being crucified on a tree:

21. And likewise after the third day rise again and remain days. 22a. And the angel who conducted me said: 'Understand, Isaiah:'

22b. and I saw when He sent out the Twelve Apostles and ascended.

23. And I saw Him, and He was in the firmament, but He had not changed Himself into their form, and all the angels of the firmament and the Satans saw Him and they worshipped. 24. And there was much sorrow there, while they said : ' How did our Lord descend in our midst, and we perceived not the glory [which has been upon Him], which we see has been upon Him from the sixth heaven?

25. And He ascended into the second heaven, and He did not transform Himself, but all the angels who were on the right and on the left and the throne in the midst 26. Both worshipped Him and praised Him and said : ' How did our Lord escape us whilst descending, and we perceived not?'

27. And in like manner He ascended into the third heaven, and they praised and said in like manner. 28. And in the fourth heaven and in the fifth also they said, precisely after the same manner. 29. But there was one glory, and from it He did not change Himself.

30. And I saw when He ascended into the sixth heaven, and they worshipped and glorified Him 31. But in all the heavens the praise increased (in volume).

32. And I saw how He ascended into the seventh heaven, 33. and all the righteous and all the angels praised Him. And then I saw Him sit down on the right hand of that Great Glory whose glory I told you that I could not behold. And also the angel of the Holy Spirit I saw sitting on the left hand.

34. And this angel said unto me : ' Isaiah, son of Amoz, it is enough for thee ; for these are great things ; for thou hast seen what no child of flesh has seen. 35. And thou wilt return into thy garment (of the flesh) until thy days are completed. Then thou wilt come hither.' 36. These things Isaiah saw and told unto all that stood before him, and they praised. And he spake to Hezekiah the King and said : ' I have spoken these things.' 37. Both the end of this world ; 38. And all this vision will be consummated in the last generations. 39. And Isaiah made him swear that he would not tell (it) to the people of Israel, nor give these words to any man to transcribe. 40. ... Such things ye will read. And watch ye in the Holy Spirit in order that ye may receive your garments and thrones and crowns of glory which are laid up in the seventh heaven. [[xi. 41-43 = editorial additions]]

I am astonied!

DCH

andrewcriddle

Hi Don

This seems to be correct for the Slavonic, however the Latin appears to be corrupt ie lacking the word "descendet" and would be difficult to translate without emendation. The common original of Latin and Slavonic is probably preserved by the Slavonic.

Andrew Criddle

GakuseiDon

Thanks DCH. Interesting! I think that Doherty would rightly say that Charles is reading "descend to earth" into the text, but the implication has to be there, based on:
(1) the Beloved will take on human form
(2) the forms that the Beloved will take in every other location above the earth are explicitly stated, and none of them are human form.

It's interesting that Charles sees some form of xi. 2-22 as being in the original texts. It makes sense; otherwise, there is no other place where the Beloved can take on human form.

GakuseiDon

Thanks for that Andrew.

In that case Doherty's statement in his book is not quite accurate. All of 9.13 as extant in the Ethiopian version isn't in the Slav/L2 texts; however, the part saying "in your form" is there in all versions... and that raises problems for Doherty's use of AoI as a WoM text.