offa

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by amlodhi,

That depends on who you mean by "we".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We" is the calendar used by this board.

I wonder what year we would arrive upon if we deciphered Pope Gregory's correction. Counting backwards what yeat would become year zero? With a 1 day correction every 400 years that would end up a subtraction of between 3000 and 4000 years. Obviously, what ever calendar was previously used was incorrect. (LOL)

Guess who was born in 1 CE. None other the St. James! and he was a powerful religious figure.

The cults back in the 1st century used several calendars with the years beginning on or near to an equinox (we have two equinoxes and the new year could begin on different dates). They used either lunar or solar calendars and those who used a lunar calendar worshipped the moon-god Sin. When Jesus says "sin no more" he saying to follow him and use the solar (jubilee) calendar. If you change your calendar you commit "adultery". He who is without sin, let him cast the 1st stone means that his followers were just as adulterous as the woman at the well.

And yes, Jesus did exist, and he was about as much of a god as Ben Franklin.

Amlodhi

Hello offa,

Based on other factors and information, it is generally thought that Dionysius' calculations were off by c. 4-7 years. I don't think that Gregory's adjustments would be useful as a tool to rectify Dionysius' error.

As you mentioned, Dionysius' revisions still did not result in an accurate calendar. By the time of Gregory, various assigned Holy Days were drifting from their astronomical markers. Gregory's revisions simply re-aligned the vernal equinox to the traditional date of Easter (IIRC, as assigned by the Nicean fathers). This was accomplished by immediately dropping 10 days from October and removing 3 leap years over every subsequent 400 year period.

This is an interesting statement. What references or calculations convinced you of this date?

Namaste'

Amlodhi

Amlodhi

Hello diana,

You're most welcome, diana. I'm glad I could be of some help.

Namaste'

Amlodhi

offa

I feel like I am being set up. But, I enjoy. I am enthralled about 44 bce and Julius Caesar. I read one about his taking the Egyptian calendar and incorporating it into his own and, thus, devising the leap-year. Afterward, I studied the Jubilee Calendar and discovered their solution to solving the solar mystery. They added 13 1/2 days every 14 years to their 364 day calendar, which, mathematically, results in 1/4 day a year. The Jubilee Calendar was at least about 100 years ahead of Caesar.

Now, about St. James ... I got that info from Ms. Thiering. Now, I am going to read your post about Ms. Thiering. You have to know, I worship the ground she walks on ... but I disagree with some of what she writes. She, unintentionally, taught me how to decipher Josephus. She also, unintentionally gave me freedom of thought. A freedom I enjoy every day in every thing I do. But, let me reiterate, I do not agree with some of her conclusions.

Amaleq13

I'm going to assume that you are referring to the thread I recently started and thank you in advance for offering your view.

If I'm wrong in this assumption, pretty please read my question and provide an answer if you have it.

Sounds like my relationship with my wife.

Seriously though, I am not planning an ambush or anything. You are the first person I've encountered in around a decade who seems familiar enough with her theory to offer an answer to this question that used to bug the crud out of me.

I now return you to the original thread topic....

offa

I feel like I am being set up. But, I enjoy. I am enthralled about 44 bce and Julius Caesar. I read one about his taking the Egyptian calendar and incorporating it into his own and, thus, devising the leap-year. Afterward, I studied the Jubilee Calendar and discovered their solution to solving the solar mystery. They added 13 1/2 days every 14 years to their 364 day calendar, which, mathematically, results in 1/4 day a year. The Jubilee Calendar was at least about 100 years ahead of Caesar.

Now, about St. James ... I got that info from Ms. Thiering. Now, I am going to read your post about Ms. Thiering. You have to know, I worship the ground she walks on ... but I disagree with some of what she writes. She, unintentionally, taught me how to decipher Josephus. She also, unintentionally gave me freedom of thought. A freedom I enjoy every day in every thing I do. But, let me reiterate, I do not agree with some of her conclusions.

Bob K

Dr. Gordon Stein, PH.D.
A Second Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism
Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St., Buffalo, NY 14215, 1987
pp. 64-65.

Dr. Stein's words provide a clear statement of the problem of determining the veracity, or falsity, of Xnity by determining the historical basis, or lack of it, for J = X and therefore Xnity is a true, or false, religion:The Catholic Church was pre-eminent in the early history of Xnity for 1500 years, controlling the copying of manuscripts (by monks in scriptoriums), and sanctioning lying in the name of Xnity to promote Xnity, a fact noted by St. Augustine in (De Mendacio in 395 A.D. and Contra Mendacium in 420 A.D.) in which he not only complained of the practice but urged that the Church condemn it and stop it.

John G. Jackson
Christianity Before Christ
American Atheist Press, Austin TX, 1985

Jackson's thesis is that Xnity existed before X in the form of myths and mythologies.

St. Augustine also held the thesis that Xnity existed before X:

That which is known as the Christ religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist; from the beginning of the human race until the time when Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity. [Retractt. I., xiii, cited by Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn in his Shadow of the Third Century, Elizabeth, NJ; Academy Press, 1949, p. 3.]

Jackson also mentions that "The Christian Father Ireneus [Bishop of Lyons, France] wrote a book, Against Heresies, about 180 A.D., and in this work he mentioned that there were in his day Christians who denied that Jesus was crucified. [And they believed that] Jesus ... lived on for many years and died as an old man." (p. 207.)

Augustine's words prove that Xns lied; Ireneus' words show that at least some individuals who believed J lived nevertheless did not hold a belief that J = God/Godman/Godghost = The One-and-Only True Dying/Rising Saviour-God, hence the question of J's historicity is, from early Xn times, clearly in doubt. Without J = God/Godman/Godghost = The One-and-Only True Dying/Rising Saviour-God being a fact, Xnity is a "false religion."

The only way to determine the veracity of Xnity is to capture a god, torture it until it admits it's a god, force it to perform stunts that prove it is a god because it has more knowledge and more capabilities for using that knowledge than mankind, and then force it to reveal what it knows about J = God/Godman/Godghost = The One-and-Only True Dying/Rising Saviour-God.

No Mention of J = J No Big Deal, Xnity = False Religion.

But at least we would know that gods exist.

diana

Hi, Bob.

Our paths haven't crossed in a while. Good to see you're still around.

With humor. Nice.

d

Amaleq13

Does Jackson mention Eusebius' reference to the Theraputae as pre-Christian "Christians"?

SkinWalker

Interesting topic, one that I've discussed with others off and again over the years.

The thing that strikes me first in your feedback-friend's message is that he confuses epistemology with religious belief. Many, if not most, people would have difficulty proving that George Washington was the first President and only know this because of what they've always been told. But "always been told" the story is where the similarities end in the analogy as far as I can see.

There are many first-person accounts of Washington (far more than Jesus) as well as portraits done as he modeled. Moreover, there are letters written in Washington's own pen by his own hand to many individuals that each provide corroboration to his Presidency. And the list goes on.

When examining the historical evidence of Jesus (and I'll certainly have a look at some of the other threads here on this? I've only just discovered Internet Infidels last night), we find very little corroboration beyond the gospels. Government records mark Washington's service to the United States. what government record exists to demonstrate the life of Jesus?

It is true that history was recorded differently 2000 years ago than it was 200 years ago, but there are many historical figures contemporary to and previous to the life of Jesus that have significantly more evidence, sometimes from multiple cultures. Archaeologists find artifacts and epigraphs that corroborate the existance of even simple merchants. One would think that a messiah would at least have more evidence of existence than Socrates.

Anyway, I won't dive into this any deeper for fear of restating/reviving established threads on the same issue as someone above suggested already exist. I'll go read a bit first