Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
OK. Then who does it? Would you favor enforcing standards if you were excluded from setting those standards?

JPD
A group made up from all walks of life - a full range of beliefs and non-beliefs.

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
Then you must have another system for establishing standards. Can you divulge any details about it?

JPD
Growth and development for all. No religious indoctrination of children. Non-biased exposure to as wide a range of ideas as possible. More equal distribution of resources. People on benefits must do some form of work for their money unless their illness or other disability makes this impossible. Accountability for one's actions. Punishment has to have something in it that the criminal can engage with to break out of the cycle of harm to self and to others.

The problem is that any course of action, whatever its foundations, exhibits a degree of shooting itself in the foot and being hypocritical. What I am keen not to see, however, is the implementation of a system that meted out punishment in an entirely different society from today's under the cloud of belief in, or negative reaction to, the potential of an all-powerful entity that, through time, has been able to hide in fewer and fewer places. In other words, a dwindling justification.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

So, if such a group established standards, you would be willing to enforce the standards if they reflected beliefs with which you did not agree?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

You are a man of faith (that death results in annihilation). On what do you base your great faith?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

In other words, it's your way or the highway.

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
In other words, it's your way or the highway.

JPD
I would hope that intelligent people might see that what I consider to be worthy propositions have some foundation in common sense and not applying justice on the basis of what someone in a book says must be done to ensure eternal salvation.

Originally Posted by The Evil One

rhutchin
You are a man of faith (that death results in annihilation). On what do you base your great faith?

The Evil One
It doesn't take faith to believe that death is the end. It takes a pair of eyes. We can see a human's physical body and we can see that after death that physical body no longer functions and will quickly decay.

On the other hand, to believe that the human being survives death you must believe that there is an invisible, intangible "extra" portion of a human being which is central to the human being's identity but which cannot be detected in any way, and that this "extra" portion carries on when detached from the body, not in this world but in another plane or dimension which is also, conveniently, invisible, intangible, and undetectable by any means. Of course, there's no evidence for any of this. Now that takes faith.

Originally Posted by EarlOfLade

rhutchin
So, if such a group established standards, you would be willing to enforce the standards if they reflected beliefs with which you did not agree?

EarlOfLade
Well, that is the result of democracy, isn't it? But I guess you want a dictatorship instead?

Originally Posted by djrafikie

rhutchin: As far as I can acertain, when I die either A: something will happen AFTERWARDS or B: Nothing will happen afterwards. The evidence tends to point to A as we have inanimate corpses and no proof of supernatural goings on whatsoever. B is imaginary, I could also claim equally viably that C: (everyone else will get a pimple when I die) is true. in fact, I could claim C, and argue C far more successfully than B, as many people do get pimples, therefore, who is to say that they don't all get one because of my death?

There is a viable position contrary to the Bible, and that could be one of any number of other holy books held by other faiths, or the "proof" clause. IE: A and C are more viable than B.

I personally believe in the Lord of the Rings, Saraman exists and causes us to sin, the White Wizard will lead us to salvation if we only believe in him. Of course this book was only supposed to be taken in the sense that it is a long parable and only an idiot would think otherwise.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

All people believe something about that which happens after death. You are entitled to your beliefs.