rhutchin

OK. So why do you think Johnny Skeptic is so exercised over this issue?

JPD

It is actually you that should be "exercised"

If all you have is the Bible, all the Bible is is words. Some of them support the concept of a good God, others a not-so-good God. Our understanding may not enable us to comprehend what is truly good on the God level. God could be good or not good but this cannot be known since we are not enabled to comprehend whether God IS good or not, and God could be pretending to be something that God is not. The conclusion that we draw about God cannot be demonstrated to have any bearing on what IS. No conclusion can in any way be demonstrated to have a greater or lesser risk of eternal torment than any other so there is no point in making a choice. The wager has no value since all it does is reword "Ooh, well I'm not sure" and give the impression that it provides some kind of basis that it doesn't have to offer.

Johnny Skeptic

Item 1 is a fact, but item 2 is not a fact. Everyone already knows that regarding humans, actions do not necessarily motives. So, why should it be any different for supernatural beings? How would an evil, deceptive God act any different than a good God? It would be quite natural for an evil, deceptive God to duplicate actions that are attributed to the God of the Bible. If you have criteria that you like for determining the true motives of a supernatural being or a human being, please post them. If you post your criteria, please be sure to include how you can determine which people who attend your church are genuine Christians based solely upon their words and actions.

rhutchin

No criteria. We only know what the Bible tells us about God.

rhutchin

Taken as a whole, the Bible says that God is good. You can always cherry-pick a verse here or there and try to get the opposite conclusion. Whether God is good or evil, the Bible says that people must be good to enter heaven, perfect even, and everyone will be judged by the bad they do. The Wager then says that those people who have done bad and think that there could be judgment in their future should do something about it.

JPD

It makes no difference - what part of "an all powerful God could give the impression that it is the opposite of what it's alleged activities lead its believers to regard it as". But we can't even get that far - the Bible merely makes the claim that God is good. It is insufficient and the wager cannot be any better.

Dlx2

Why is the Bible an authority we can and should trust?

knotted paragon

Now, now, rhutchin - your psychosis is forcing you to make claims you can't back up. You've never seen anybody being eternally tormented or escaping eternal torment, neither had Pascal. So, neither you nor Pascal can speak about what is rational in relation to eternal torment. As you state here in one of your rare instances of lucidity: One cannot conduct a risk analysis on imagination and myth. It is not rational. Please present evidence to support the assertions that Yahweh exists, tells people to do anything, says anything, or has ever been found. Why should anybody be concerned about a fictional entity? Do you have any evidence that, if Yahweh exists, the bible isn't a malicious shell game to get people to waste their lives enslaved just to be consigned to eternal torment anyway?

enemigo

rhutchin, will you please respond to my post?

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...86#post3232686

Johnny Skeptic

The Bible is irrelevant. Even if you had been alive during the time of Jesus, had seen him perform what you believe are miracles, and had heard him speak, you would still have the same problem. He might have been an evil God who was masquerading as a good God.

Is it your position that any being who shows up who has powers that are beyond the abilities of humans should be loved and trusted?