Godfather

That was a little off topic, but I felt it needed to be said. I have become so free since I have just taken the time to analyze what it is I hold on to. The beauty of it all is that everyone can think for themselves. I geuss no matter how hard I try, I can't make my friends see things my way. Which I see as being a good thing. My purpose for posting this thread was to obtain some ammunition to shoot down my friend's lame statements. I see now how useless that would be. They will think for themselves when they are ready.

Godfather

I am just a bit inquisitive. What does "cut it" for you? Tell us why you believe so strongly. We are all here to learn from each other.

JoyJuice

Tell him that it seems the uniqueness of Christianity is it creates the problem and then offers the solution, tantamount to what the La Cosa Nostra would with the Mom and Pop business.

~take care

inquisitive01

"How come the Bible says that you can know that you have eternal life, but expects blind faith?"

A similar question for me would be as follows: How come a woman at her wedding, who accidently gets her picture taken with a whiskey bottle in her hand, which is later sent out on flyers about her wedding, feels that a "mockery" has been made of her wedding? Is she embarrassed or what? If so, why?

"If Jesus is not the Savior of mankind, no amount of believing is going to make Him that."

No amount of disbelieving is going to make Him not that either.

Btw, I do think for myself. I (and only I) decide how to live my life, and I have a choice between trying to live right and living wrong (there are NO OTHER choices, but I make the choices). Apparently, and unlike you, I don't perceive a message of tyranny and oppression from trying my best to live by the word of God. Instead, I see the peace and love that is possible by doing so.

What cuts it for me: A lack of arrogance and vanity. I guess some might call it being humble (not full of pride).

Why I believe so strongly: I just don't think it's possible for so much to just fall into place so accurately, and there seems to be a reason for everything that's present (other than just random chance, of which the odds of would likely be impossible to even comprehend). Besides, if what I believe is false, which cannot be proven (only speculated about) here or anywhere else in this world, then it seems to me that nothing really matters anyway (i.e., we would just be many different species floating around on a large rock until we die, with no purpose of existence other than random chance - end of story).

LP675

Sorry I am jumping in a bit late…

I have to agree with others in saying it is irrelevant if there are similar stories or not in other religions. All that matters is if Christianity is true or not. I personally believe it is. Some will tell your there are parallels in this myth or that mystery religion, but others say there aren’t. I don’t think it matters too much either way.

I don’t think you would (I suspect people could think of good explanations for it anyway). You might explain it away in terms of “the Hebrew language was modeled of certain star formations, and the Hebrews selected the word “I am� to represent God because they saw it in the sky.�

Amaleq13

That is an interesting point but I was imagining a section of sky completely unlike the rest (ie an anomaly). All the other stars' "behavior" and position, etc. would be completely consistent with physics and astronomy. To my knowledge, what I described would be considered "impossible" according to modern science and, thus, not natural.

Adding the other formation I described, however, would be sufficient to eliminate your described explanation.

Now that I think about it, having just the first formation would be sufficient if it suddenly appeared during my lifetime.

DramaQ

An event that gigantic caught only by 25 out of 6 billion people? And the 6 billion doubt the 25? Go figure!

Since such an event doesn’t happen every day – or at ALL for that matter – and since SOMEHOW only 25 people managed to catch it, of COURSE people will doubt it!

Now let’s look at your analogy in a different way:

Suppose those 25 people DID insist that they saw this miracle. Suppose they DID have those pictures to prove it. Even if the vast majority of people doubted it, it would STILL make the news. It would be reported, debated, conjectured on. Believers would argue with non-believers.

In short, it would get NOTICED.

The events purported to have happened 2000 years ago went completely UNNOTICED by all the equivalent of news agencies of the time. If somebody turned water into wine, raised a guy from the dead, walked on water, and was resurrected from the dead - even if only 25 people saw it (and believed) - it seems mighty strange that no one else bothered to report EVEN THE CLAIM for a good 30 years.

Sven

I might add that there were people who wrote about this region at this time, who even mentioned miracles done by others (AFAIR, sorry, no reference) - but they wrote not a single shred about Jesus and his miracles.

Jack the Bodiless

And the arrogance of some people (in believing that their favorite book is actually "the word of God") doesn't cut it for ME.
You mean the verses which say we were "redeemed by the blood of Christ"?
It is standard Christian doctrine that "original sin" was somehow negated by the blood sacrifice of Jesus. We aren't the ones who invented this insane doctrine, and neither did Paine.

If you disagree, take it up with the Christians.