rhutchin

I only noted that we have two dates calculated for the date of creation. It seemed appropriate given the context of the discussion (and did not require that I be an advocate for either one).

rhutchin

There are two issues here.

1. What does the Bible say?
2. Is the Bible accurate?

At this point, the discussion is centered on (1).

rhutchin

You are a Christian, if and only if God says you are.

rhutchin

I have not seen anything that would support your contention that you KNOW what it takes to be a christian, and you WERE one. Even the Bible requires 2-3 witnesses to the truth of a matter. So far, we have you making claims and nothing more. From what the Bible tells us, if you ever were a Christian, you would still be one now.

Ubercat

I explained the requirements of salvation to you several times.

you must know that you are a sinner, worthy of judgement and condemnation. You must believe that jesus the christ, the son of the living god, died so that those who accept his sacrifice, and call out to him for salvation, can be saved. I asked jesus to forgive my sins, come in to my heart, and be my lord and saviour.

I then started my "walk" with god, and strove to live my life for him. I went through a couple of CHRISTIAN churches, and ended up in a Calvinist one with "good" strong doctrine. Unlike you, I was unable to maintain the mental fragmentation, necessary to believe in both predestination and free will. I knew that the creator I believed in was the source of all evil, and despite claims of divine love, clearly cared only for his own vast, yet petty ego. All my prayers and pleas, to enable me to continue to love this beast, fell on non-existent ears.

From the earler (pre christian) stage of my life, I knew that creationism was not scientific, and the lies of ID'ers were just as transparent to me as a believer. Despite this, I persevered in my faith, with almost superhuman strength, far longer than I thought possible. Obviously, I just imagined all that, since you've straightened me out with your godlike knowlege of my life. I couldn't continue to believe in what was clearly false, and the house of cards collapsed.

Now, I've clearly described to you what I did. If you yourself are a christian, then you know that I'm right. If you want to argue about petty little doctrinal details, (like sanctification) then YOU are the one making crap up. None of that is essential to "salvation." I know you'll still judge me, and claim to know me better than I know myself, and I don't care anymore. "By their fruits you shall know them" I expect that my testimony will be benificial to some lurkers, if not the willfully blind.

-Ubercat

John A. Broussard

Now, I'm really puzzled.

How does one determine whether or not one's neighbor is a Christian? Do we have to make direct contact with god to find out?

Please explain.

John A. Broussard

In post #89 you unequivocally stated that "The Bible says that man was created within the last 15,000 years"

Does this give you some inkling as to why the other posters find you uncertain, evasive, and just downright wrong--over and over again?

rhutchin

There are two calculations of the date of the creation. They are both within a 15,000 year timeframe. When I said, "The Bible says that man was created within the last 15,000 years," I did not mean anything other than to lump the existing calculations of that date within that timeframe. I am not aware of any method that one can use to get a calculation for the creation of the universe earlier than 15,000 BC.

rhutchin

As a technical point, one is not to determine whether one's neighbor is a Christian. The goal is to help one’s neighbor determine if he is a Christian (i.e., determine whether God has saved them).

God has provided information to do that in the Bible, so one would need to investigate the Bible to determine whether God has saved them.

Wayne Delia

But they both can't be right. You're preferring the one closer to your way of thinking, using no other justification than you obviously have a hard time admitting when you're wrong.

Are you begging your debate opponents again to do the calculation you need to do to establish your point? That's a very weak debate strategy.

For that matter, it is hard to tell if your reading comprehension is any good. I clearly explained the context, and will do so again: Quayle condemned the Satanic Verses, which he hadn't actually read nor understood what the text asserted. Analogously, you're rejecting Bishop James Ussher's calculation of not only the year of creation as 4004 B.C., but the date of creation as what we now know as October 23, without being familiar with the research or calculation methods Ussher employed. So what more do you need to know about the context?

WMD