aa5874

Please, I am addressing the OP.

I am making COUNTER-ARGUMENTS AGAINST Pinkvoy that Philo did NOT write about Christians and Jesus when he mentioned the Essenes.

Please, examine what Pinkvoy posted.

My argument is that Pinkvoy's proposition is completely erroneous.

In order to understand what Christians BELIEVED in antiquity and how Jesus was described we MUST at least examine Apologetic sources and the NT and then COMPARE what Christians believed to the Beliefs of the Essenes.

In "Hypothetica" and "On the Comtemplative Life" we have description of the Beliefs and ritual of the Essenes.

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book34.html

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book37.html

The Pauline writer is claimed to be a SUPPOSED contemporary of Philo.

We have Pauline letters which state the supposed TEACHINGS of Paul during the TIME OF PHILO.

Now, let us go through LINE by LINE and COMPARE the Beliefs of the Essenes and the Teachings of the supposed Paul.

1. First of all there is NOTHING about any BELIEF of the Essenes in a resurrected character in the writings of Philo in "Hypothetica" or "On the Comtemplative Life".

2. There is NOTHING about Salvation by Sacrifice or the resurrection of a character in the "Hypothetica" or "On the Comteplative Life".

3. There is Nothing about the worship of a resurrected character as the Son of God in "Hypothetica" or "On the Contemplative Life".

4. There is NOTHING about a character who was called the Messiah by the Essenes in "Hypothetica" and "On the Contemplative Life".

But, this is MOST significant.

The Essenes REPUDIATE MARRIAGE

Hypothetica Surely based on the supposed Pauline letters Christians were being Married.

1 Corinthians 7:9 KJV It is clear that the Essenes were NOT Jesus cult Christians based on the abundance of evidence.

Sheshbazzar

By that type of reasoning the Shakers could not have been any part of the Christian religion.
It presumes all Christian sects must have accepted identical teachings and practices. There is certainly is no evidence that can establish that as being a fact.
And Corinthians was written who knows how long after Christian communities had became established. It was a reactionary document penned -after the fact- in an attempt to control and to standardize the previously varying sectarian 'Christian' beliefs and practices.



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Duvduv

What are Essenes anyway?? According to Philo the term was a generic description or even a nickname, and the writer under the name of Josephus got all confused in his creative writing class to then describe the "Essenes" as an identifiable sect of Jews, as a MAJOR phenomenon or "Philosophy." How ridiculous.

Almost as ridiculous as the novel called history of Massada, or even as the non-existent sect living and writing in Qumran.

aa5874

What a load of BS.

Did Pliny the Elder also INVENT the Essenes??

Please, let us do history and forget about Imagination.

Pliny the Elder in Natural History

Toto

Archived thread: Essenes were invented by Philo/Josephus, according to Rachel Elior

Later thread on same topic

Duvduv

I think it's hardly necessary to build a sand castle based on a writing ascribed to Pliny the Elder that gets geography wrong. Besides, maybe this author was written LONG after Philo or Josephus anyway.

aa5874

All you have is Hot air. You are being consumed by the evidence from antiquity. You are fighting against history with your imagination.

Now, Hippolytus wrote ELEVEN chapters on the Essenes in "Refutation of All Heresies".

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050109.htm

aa5874

I am making COUNTER arguments against Pinkvoy's proposition.

My argument is that the Essenes were NOT part of the Jesus cult of Christians and did NOT worship a character called the LORD Jesus as a God

Paul was supposedly a Contemporary of Philo, Josephus and the Essenes.

In a supposed Pauline letter, Paul claimed Jesus was LORD and that Every person should Bow TO THE NAME of Jesus.

The Essenes did NOT call anyone LORD except God ALONE based on Hippolytus. In effect, Essenes would rather be KILLED than to be a Pauline Christian.

Refutation of All Heresies 9
Philippians 2

Duvduv

He sounds like recycled Josephus or vice versa. He classifies the Essenes as the "third great group" after the Pharisees and Saduccees. And yet there is not a single reference to such a group alongside the Saduccees as heretics/sectarians in any Jewish religious source from antinquity. None. And of course it was said that there were various types of Pharisees as well. So let's not build sand castles from Hippolytus or anyone else.

aa5874

You are FIGHTING history with your Imagination. Hippolytus wrote information about the Essenes that is NOT found in Josephus. You are just blowing Hot AIR and have NOTHING but ad hoc inventions.