Johnny Skeptic

Some Jews have returned, but they would have returned even if God had not made a land promise to Abraham. Anyone who has just a modest amount of common sense knows that all that it takes to fulfill a self-fulfilled prophecy is the belief that it is true, and enough military power to make it come true. Who granted Jews control of Jerusalem and a grossly disproportionate and unfair amount of land per capita? Answer, 33 governments, 32 which are predominantly Christian governments, and the Russian government. At the time of the partition, Russia was joyfully receiving lots of aid from the U.S. for rebuilding purposes because of the Second World War.

Who voted against the partition? Answer, 13 governments, 12 which are non-Christian, and the Greek government, which is nominally Christian.

Where did the Jews get all of their money and military equipment from? Answer, mostly from Jews and Christians.

If Jewish and Palestinian history had been reversed, and Hitler and other parties had persecuted Palestinians instead of Jews, would the U.N. had granted control of Jerusalem and a grossly disproportionate and unfair amount of land per capita to teh Palestinians? Answer, no, which proves that the Partition of Palestine was a self-fulfilled prophecy. If it was not a self-fulfilled prophecy, the U.N. would have voted the same no matter what.

Israel can never be proof of God's existence in this life. In the NASB, 2 Samuel 7:10 says "I will fix a place for my people Israel; I will plant them so that they may dwell in their place without further disturbance. Neither shall the wicked continue to afflict them as they did of old." The Partition of Palestine most certainly did not fulfill that prophecy, and it never will because the Jews are surrounded by hostile neighbors, because some terrorists live in Israel, because some Muslim countries are developing nuclear weapons, because the Bible says that there will always be wars and rumors of wars in this life, and because the Bible says that during the last days, nation will rise against nation.

There is not any doubt whatsoever that Jews expected to have a homeland of their own where no one would bother them in this life, not in the next life. Therefore, God deceived the Jews.

Micah 5:2 says "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." If the Jews believed that the messiah would become ruler of Israel in this life, which I believe that they did, God deceived them.

Although Christians blame the Jews for not knowing who Jesus was, it was God's fault. If Micah had said that the messiah would become ruler of a heavenly kingdom, and that he would heal people, and that he would be crucified and rise from the dead, and that Pontius Pilate would become governor of Palestine, there are not any doubts whatsoever that a lot more Jews would have accepted Jesus.

A God who wanted to use prophecy for anything would make lots of indisputable predictions that would discourage dissent instead of needlessly inviting dissent. No reasonable motives = no God of the Bible.

arnoldo

Question How many governments supplied troops for the State of Israel to defend itself in 1948.
Answer: 0

Sheshonq

Then your answer is: wrong.

arnoldo

Ok, what was the "coalition of the willing" which sent armies to help Israel defend itself in 1948?

arnoldo

The argument of silence is deafening.

spin

(And this was stunningly reprehensible of these nations. Not one seriously considered the Palestinians. It's as though they really were of no importance in the matter.)

Stunning non sequitur!

But hell, while you're playing these silly games, how many governments supplied the training for the troops that fought for the Zionist cause? Almost every European government, as most of the Zionist forces had been active during WW2. The Palestinians had no training whatsoever. People were coming from all over the world to support the Zionist cause, to fight. And you can't see this as self-fulfilling. Hmmm.


spin

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: If you decided that you wanted to protect John Smith from being attacked by his enemies because John Smith was your friend, would you injure or kill him? Of course you wouldn't, which invites the question "If God wanted to protect Jews from their enemies, why did he sometimes injure or kill them with storms and harmful microorganisms? With parasites alone, God has killed more people than all of the wars in history, and he has done so indiscriminately without any regard for a person's worldview. It is utter nonsense for anyone to assume that God would protect Jews from being injured or killed by humans, but not from being injured or killed by anything else.

During the first several years of the Second World War, did the U.S. have any troops in Europe? No.

Without American aid, would the British have been defeated? Yes.

Without a majority vote by the U.N., would the Jews have tried to occupy parts of Palestine at that time? No.

If the Bible did not exist, would the vote by the U.N. have been the same? No. The proof is that out of the 33 governments that voted in favor of the partition, 32 are Christian, and 1, the Russian government, was joyfully receiving lots of aid from the U.S. Out of the 13 governments that voted against the partition, 12 are not-Chrisitian, and 1, the Greek government, is nominally Christian. Now are you going to embarrass yourself and tell us that Christianity, Judaism, and military power did not have anything to do with the Partition of Palestine, and that if the Axis Powers had won the Second World War, the Palestine would have been partitioned.

Is it true that even if a prophecy is false, if people believe that it is true, and have enough military power, they can make it come true? Yes.

Could God have made indisputable prophecies that would have left no doubt about the history of the Jewish people? Yes.

Could God easily prove to everyone's satisfaction that he can predict the future if he wanted to?

2 Samuel 7:10 says that the Jews will have a homeland where no one will bother them. That is not going to happen.

Amaleq13

That phrase doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Sheshonq

You were the one to claim that no one helped Israel. Let's see your evidence for that.

You made the claim - burden of proof is on your back. And since you claimed first, you can have the honor of being first one to back up your claim.

If you succeed, then you'll be in a position to ask others (including me) to support their claims.

Sheshonq

1. You don't have a clue what that phrase means.

2. It was 12am when you posted this. Your next post was 6 hours later, ~ 6am. Did you expect anyone to respond? Some people actually sleep overnight and don't stay up, poised at the computer, waiting for your next error-filled post to appear.