Newton's Cat

You have a document that makes reference to 2 people. After reading it over many times you suspect that the document has been altered, that one of the characters has been interpolated into the text. You remove references to this character - and discover that the text now has a structure centred around the remaining character. This structure could in no way have come about by mere chance. The author of the original document MUST have carefully arranged the text.

The text is the Greek text of Romans 1,1-17

Remove Jesus Christ from the text.

You then take a close look at other NT texts - and find a similar thing has happened - someone added Jesus Christ to pre-existing religious texts.

After musing for many years about this you conclude that Christianity (as we know it today) was founded by a very cunning mind - by someone who INVENTED the character Jesus Christ and thereby founded a CULT.

The underlying religious texts contain wisdom - which was to a great extent corrupted by whoever introduced Jesus Christ into the picture.

Close analysis of NT texts by sophisticated computer programs should eventually be able to clearly demonstrate how the above was done.

Nialler

I'm not so sure. Having worked in Journalism, we got accustomed to "Pyramid Writing". The idea was that you would write maybe 800 words. You were paid by the word, so you wanted 800 words in the article. However, you didn't want to write in such a way that it couldn't be edited. Hence the "pyramid" style, which would allow the latter paragraphs to be removed one at a time, while still leaving an intact pyramid. Writing in any other way meant that a single objection meant that the entire article was scrubbed, so better to have 500 words printed than none. We wrote to ease editing.

The style wasn't entirely vertical or horizontal, either. There was a skill in inserting a thread that could be removes entirely. Like removing a sub-plot from a Shakespear play. You'd still end up with the main plot, but it would be shorter and involve less words.

Maybe the original writers of the buybull were early journalists on a word-rate.

David B

There a lots of serious students of biblical texts on BCH.

I'd suggest to Newton that he asks for a move to there, if no-one here comes up with much after a reasonable time.

David B

epepke

I think that's called qualitative analysis.

Newton's Cat

My reason for putting this in Science & Skepticism is that it is not really a "religious" question - its not a matter of belief.

I've posted it elsewhere - and people just "dismissed" it!

If the following is removed from the Greek text of Romans, 1-17:

'a slave of Christ Jesus' in verse 1

All of verses 3-6

'and Lord Jesus Christ' in verse 7

'through Jesus Christ' in verse 8

'in the Gospel of the Son of him' in verse 9

.. then the remaining text contains EXACTLY 1000 characters

In this text the word God is used 8 times - in each instance the first letter of the word God, or the first letter of its definite article, if it has one, is an EVEN number of letters from the beginning of the text.

Statistically this is equivalent to tossing a coin 8 times and getting it to come down on the same side each time. 256-1 against the arrangement happening by chance.

AND ... in 7 out of the 8 instances the word God, or its definite article is an ODD number of words from the beginning of the text. The "odd one out" is a "pointer" to a word in the text that identifies the authors "concept of God".

The word is "now", "the present moment".

The author was a philospher of some sort rather than a conventional religous thinker.

If this interests you you can check it out for yourself (use the Nestle Greek version)

I've no idea why the original author so structured his text - but I did read somewhere that similar sophisticated mathematical "tricks" were used by Ovid in his writings.

Newton's Cat

The Original text (before the addition of Jesus Christ)

Paul, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. First, I thank my God for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. For God is my witness, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

chessbored

I had a boss who was commiting fraud, she realised her e-mails would giver her away so she tampered with them to corroborate her version of events. The silly woman didn't realise that a copy of the original messages were stored elsewhere - she literally dropped herself right in the shit! Any doubt was cleared up when she went to great lengths to do something really easily traced.

Nialler

I've been playing a sophisticated trick on IIDB involvinng acrostics and Large Number Theory. If you list a repeating pattern of Schumacker primes and oppose them against a list of Lepic squares, the exclusion list will reveal a message that predicts the annihaltion of the US.

Will that ?

Newton's Cat

What I perceive is that there was someone about in the 1st/2nd century ad who started what eventually became Christianity - I'm trying to discern what he/she did to start it. I'm looking for an event that started Christianity.

An event in time and place and a person from which its primary influence came. An event that preceeded the introduction of the fictitious character Jesus Christ onto the scene.

Clivedurdle

Your refs to Romans - are you discussing a greek version? Which one?

I have seen arguments that Revelation is an originally Jewish document that was altered.

Ellegard has used statistical techniques on the NT.