rlcjhardesty

Would someone please be honest...

All this talk - thousands of threads, quotes, replys...

Rally the troups to offer or acquire some new "evidence" against the Bible! Hey... Lets be real. Jesus Christ lived just as surely as Alexander the Great. People have tried to destroy the Bible for 2000 years and have failed. The Temple ruins are a fact. Come on... What are you really upset about? Could it be the statements of Jesus Christ? Could that be why such ongoing effort goes into the maintenance of this web site? Budda? Mohammed? - just another religion. Jesus is a different matter entirely. Will someone please admit that the passage below is really what all the fuss is about? Would someone please confess that what you really want; is to do whatever you want, to whomever you want, whenever you want - and be free of all accountability.

"I assure you, unless you are born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished. But those who do what is right come to the light gladly, so everyone can see that they are doing what God wants." - John Chapter 3

Doctor X

To request honesty, one must be honest.

Using "" does not render a fact non-factual. Of course you could choose which biblical creation myth to believe and which one to reject. The same applies for the Flood Myths. I have already posted a summary of the evidence against the existence of the Exodus-Conquest.

Actually, no. We have evidence for Alexander. We do not for Junior. While argument for a historical figure as a base for the stories seems reasonable, it is not certain. We also have no certainty as to what any real Junior did or said.

Argumentum ad veritatem obfuscandam.

Which proves what? The Flood? Creation? Talking donkey?

Which ones did he actually say? The ones in which he denies salvation to good people?

Most ironic because it is a mistranslation. The word you translate as "again" is actually "from above"--and reflected as such in more modern translations. The words is anothen which is "above"--ano--placed in the ablative with -then--"from." Junior is setting a distinction; unless you were born "from above"--predetermined for salvation--you cannot become saved.

In other parts of Jn, he calls the Wandering Band of Jews 'n Scribes "ek kato--"from below"--whilst calling himself "ek ano"--"from above."

Of course, Jn's audience is all predetermined for salvation.

Most ironic you would choose a polemical and exclusionary passage.

--J.D.

Jack the Bodiless

Why should we "admit" that which is not true?

Why would you find such a lie comforting?

Will YOU be honest enough to admit that you cannot face the thought that your Bible has lied to you about our motives, and is therefore false? (Of course, it's false for plenty of other reasons too).

What drives you to find comfort in falsehoods rather than face reality?
An interesting case of "projection" there.

Godless Wonder

Oh please. We don't believe the Bible because it makes no sense, makes many many ridiculous claims, and because there exists no evidence that the Bible is associated with any deity, or that any deity whatsoever exists. Why don't you believe the Koran? The Book of Mormon? Why don't you believe in Zeus?

Dean Anderson

Well, I'm always happy to please where I can (just ask my wife!)

Which do you prefer?

Would you rather I was honest, or would you rather I affirmed your projectionist stereotype?

I'm afraid I can't do both.

spin

Pesher John

Not a sufficient condition, mind you. A hallucinogen from your local might get you further though. Heaven, I'm in heaven...

This son for some irrational reason needs to commit suicide in some contorted appeasement ritual.

God of course couldn't save everybody -- including his son who has to be given -- the trouble by doing a better job in the first place

Wouldn't it have been better to show his love for the world by saving it from sickness, death, horror, terror, absurdity, etc.

From the mess that God made.

You can't hold the lobotomized to account, even if it is self-inflicted.

Sounds more like Basil W. Brush. If you don't believe the Iraqi War was forced upon us, you must be a communist. Already judged.

Barbara opened her thighs. Plop. Waaa. Al came, contended in darkness and was judged wanting.

Yes, I want to sin in the darkness. Does anyone have Monica Bellucci's phone number? I believe the slogan "make love, not war".

Hey, I want to expose my sins, as long as Iget the book rights. Oh, and pulease, punish me. Send me to the Castle Perilous where I may be spanked.

"Men gather round me like moths around a flame
And if their wings burn I know I'm not to blame."

-------------------

There's nothing more entertaining than the groans of a frustrated proselytizer bewhinging his lack of success.


spin

Edated four spilling

Autonemesis

I already have that. Now go away.

NearNihil Experience

"Would someone please confess that what you really want; is to do whatever you want, to whomever you want, whenever you want - and be free of all accountability. "

You want honesty? What I really want resembles nothing like this and resembles more of what you want. But want in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets full first. The facts is that the world is such that we can do what we want, to whom we want when we want...minus using things like telekenetics or ESP or other mumbojumbo. I don't like it, I wish there were more engraind proscriptions against contriving and decrying fellow people...but then you wouldn't be able to post this question...

But there is accountability. And accountability is something you nuts just can't live without because you are basing your entire system of base revenge and ressentment. And thats fine, just admit it as much as I admit that we a free to wreak havoc on ourselves and others.
However, accountability is very available to us, more so than you divine-tit suckers...being in a free world, we have the ability to hold someone accountable for their action, and directly for their actions. In as much as we are free to harm others, we are free to step in and hold accountable those causing harm...unlike those wrapped in the Bible-blanket whose actions are pinned in and limited to sculking and being judgmental, and pleading to God to exact "justice" on wrong doers...because you won't.

It is a giant free for all down here. Maybe someone else needs to be more honest about what is really going on. I know you want things to be as you say, but they are not as you say...they are as they are and nothing you can say or do will change the fact that the world runs on bloody claws. It is up to us to hold accountable and exact punishment and revenge and prevention.
I don't let my want supersceed reality, and reality dictates that We are the actors. And scaring people with Hell, and bribing them with Heaven only proves my point further, that you are trying to hold those wrongdoesrs to account, by proxy through God. Quit relying on God for something so simple as prevention of repeated violence when you are totally free to prevent it....
ohwait...I guess I have to since you can't cast the first stone and must turn the other cheek....well I guess it is up to the rest of humanity to bring some sense of order to the world.:banghead:

UV2003

It's all about Thabiz.

Thabiz lived long ago in a town called Esnesnon. When Thabiz was born, many came to visit him and proclaim him a great future ruler. Thabiz grew up and learned many things and eventually began teaching many things to people. He challenged them in their stubborn ways and was villified for it by the ruling elite, the Sidnuf teachers. They wanted to cling to their traditions and did not want to hear Thabiz. But those who were downtrodden by the the Sidnuf teachers welcomed Thabiz. Soon Thabiz began healing sick and casting out demonic beings from people. He began walking across bodies of water and calming storms. He did so many amazing things that the Sidnuf teachers wanted him dead. They had him killed, and at the moment he was killed many dead ancients rose out of their graves as an earthquake shook their tombs open. Several days later, Thabiz came back from the dead as well, and at this point, those many dead ancients began walking around the holy town of Elat Llat. Thabiz appeared to his close followers and told them to preach his truth to the whole world.

Pastors of Thabizism began to search their sacred writings and found predictions of Thabiz's coming. They were astonished. The great Thabiz had come, and all of the universe must be interpreted from the point of Thabiz.

A few thousand years later, people read the story of Thabiz and say, "What, are you kidding me? What a bunch of nonsense. Only Jesus did things of that nature! That business about Thabiz is just a tall tale, spurned by fundi fanatics of Thabizism! They are outdated and antiquated to believe such foolishness. Only Jesus did things of that nature. If someone were to tell you today about a guy doing these types of things in, say, Africa, you'd think they were mistaken at best, insane at worst! Don't be bringing me this Thabiz nonsense. I don't want to hear it. I have Jesus, the Truth. Jesus is the only ancient figure who did such amazing things because he was destined to come and destined to do it. "

What, I just made up that business about Thabiz? What about this story:

Over a thousand years, a man named Mohammed went into a cave and received a vision from Allah the One God. And now, almost 1400 years later, a world is under the influence of the thoughts and actions of this one man. He destroyed the idols that tribes worshipped, ushering in monotheism and a call for unity, but Thabizists and Christians alike do not believe in Allah. Allah is not objectively real, though Jehovah and Christ certainly are real.

-UV

Ebonmuse

A recent visitor to my website made this same comment to me, and this was my reply:

"They have? This is certainly news to me. I was under the impression that during most of that time, Christianity's grip on society was so absolute that merely to question the Bible was likely to get you imprisoned or put to death. (Blasphemy was still a crime punishable by death in England in 1500.) You'd certainly like to make it seem as if Christianity had survived two millennia of rigorous questioning and searching inquiry, but in reality during almost all of that time it was an absolute truth that no one was allowed to question. It ruled by force, not by reason. It's only very recently that humanist principles like freedom of speech have made enough of an impact on Western society that it's even become possible to speak out publicly against the dominant religion."

Has it ever occurred to you that what we're really upset about is ignorant, condescending proselytizers who know nothing about atheism except what they've read in Jack Chick tracts, and then come here and make statements like this: