Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Data · 10-10-2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I don't expect you to believe this because you've probably never been confronted with experiential proof that God does miracles. I have, in many places all over the world, seen blind eyes open, crushed arms made completely whole (as I watched), cancer literally fall off people, cripples walk, and I have heard of, not seen, but heard of limbs growing back in place through various missionary and pastor friends of mine. You can take it or leave it. I have all the proof I need so these rediculous websites like "God hate amputees" or whatever, are about as convincing as my dog barking the mysteries of the universe.

It just never happens outside of third world countries, mysteriously undocumented and unreferenced, and heard of through a friend of a friend.

Lets ask the question again then, why doesn't God answer the prayers of first-world amputees?

aa5874 · 10-10-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I have, in many places all over the world, seen blind eyes open, crushed arms made completely whole (as I watched), cancer literally fall off people, cripples walk,....

On which TV channel did you watch those miracles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

....and I have heard of, not seen, but heard of limbs growing back in place through various missionary and pastor friends of mine.

On which radio station did you hear of those miracles?

Nuwanda · 10-10-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Data

It just never happens outside of third world countries, mysteriously undocumented and unreferenced, and heard of through a friend of a friend.

Lets ask the question again then, why doesn't God answer the prayers of first-world amputees?

I used Data's quote, not because he listened any better than the rest of you, but because he brings up the question of 1st-world amputees. The miracles I have witnessed up to this point do happen mostly in 3rd-world settings. One of the blind eyes I saw openned was in Mexico, the crushed arm was an elderly lady in Siberia (my brother in law had the honor of praying for her), the cancers I've seen removed have happened on many occations, some of which were in my own home church in Mesa, Arizona, the crippled made able to walk - So. Africa, Mexico, and Gilbert Arizona.

One more time for the hard of reading - I could care less if you believe me. If you were to believe based only on my telling you then your belief would be man created, not God created. I brought them up only because you need to know that with some Christians like me you are fighting a losing battle if you desire to convince them that God does not heal. You want medical records, please, be honest with yourself. When have any of you believed medical records when related to miracles? Plenty exist, if you were honest in your search for recorded medical miracle healings you would not be asking some guy on the internet, you'd be researching hospitals. Records won't help you believe. "The doctor made it up, the patient faked it, conspiracy, ignorant doctor, blah, blah," save it.

The word of God will convince those who have ears to hear. How many pharisees, scribes, and lawyers believed Christ according to the miracles they saw? You're "show me the records" game is just that, a game. But concerning your "1st-world" question, why is it that Christ could not do many mighty works in Nazareth (Matt 13:58)? Look it up and read your answer. Don't like the answer? Cry me a river. I'll check back with IIDB in another month or so and see if all you "progressives" have progressed past the same old arguments, but I won't hold my breath. :wave:

xaxxat · 10-10-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

Don't like the answer? Cry me a river. I'll check back with IIDB in another month or so and see if all you "progressives" have progressed past the same old arguments, but I won't hold my breath. :wave:

Translation = I have no evidence to back up these claims so I'll leave now and hope everyone forgets I made them...

pharoah · 10-10-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I used Data's quote, not because he listened any better than the rest of you, but because he brings up the question of 1st-world amputees. The miracles I have witnessed up to this point do happen mostly in 3rd-world settings. One of the blind eyes I saw openned was in Mexico, the crushed arm was an elderly lady in Siberia (my brother in law had the honor of praying for her), the cancers I've seen removed have happened on many occations, some of which were in my own home church in Mesa, Arizona, the crippled made able to walk - So. Africa, Mexico, and Gilbert Arizona.

One more time for the hard of reading - I could care less if you believe me. If you were to believe based only on my telling you then your belief would be man created, not God created. I brought them up only because you need to know that with some Christians like me you are fighting a losing battle if you desire to convince them that God does not heal. You want medical records, please, be honest with yourself. When have any of you believed medical records when related to miracles? Plenty exist, if you were honest in your search for recorded medical miracle healings you would not be asking some guy on the internet, you'd be researching hospitals. Records won't help you believe. "The doctor made it up, the patient faked it, conspiracy, ignorant doctor, blah, blah," save it.

The word of God will convince those who have ears to hear. How many pharisees, scribes, and lawyers believed Christ according to the miracles they saw? You're "show me the records" game is just that, a game. But concerning your "1st-world" question, why is it that Christ could not do many mighty works in Nazareth (Matt 13:58)? Look it up and read your answer. Don't like the answer? Cry me a river. I'll check back with IIDB in another month or so and see if all you "progressives" have progressed past the same old arguments, but I won't hold my breath. :wave:

Let's assume for a moment that you are not deceiving or being deceived. How then do you explain the miracle claims of rival sects of Christianity, or the claims of Hinduism, Mormons, Moslems, and Catholics?

The standard evangelical response to these miracle claims is that they are either lies or the works of demons. Why should we believe your eyewitness testimony when you discount the eyewitness testimony of rival religions? If on the other hand you claim that demons can work miracles, then how do you know for sure that demons didn't work the miracles that you saw?

Kosh · 10-10-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

There's a simple apologetic....He does answer the prayer of amputees. He just says "no."

Ah yes, the "Garth Brooks apologetic"..

"Sometimes I thank God <guitar riff> for un-answ-ered pray-ee-yers"
- Garth Brooks, "No Fences" album

(Welcome back Vork).

Kosh · 10-10-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I have, in many places all over the world, seen blind eyes open, crushed arms made completely whole (as I watched), cancer literally fall off people, cripples walk,

Nuwanda, were there other witnesses that would coroborate this testimony?

Can you give us details such as date, location, etc?

aa5874 · 10-10-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

The miracles I have witnessed up to this point do happen mostly in 3rd-world settings. One of the blind eyes I saw openned was in Mexico, the crushed arm was an elderly lady in Siberia (my brother in law had the honor of praying for her), the cancers I've seen removed have happened on many occations, some of which were in my own home church in Mesa, Arizona, the crippled made able to walk - So. Africa, Mexico, and Gilbert Arizona.

You have not seen any cancer being removed by any act of God. I challenge you to give the names of those persons. There has been no record of such events anywhere in the world.

ksskidude · 10-10-2006, 06:23 PM

Nuwanda

Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Regardless of third world or not, if someone's arm spontaneuosly grew back, we would have known about it. I think my OP is a mystifying question for Christians, but than again most atheistic question's seem to stump the so-called Christian.

Swishy McJackass · 10-11-2006, 09:52 AM

You know, with all the "miraculous healings" happening all over the world, there'd be at least ONE picture or video popping up on the internet. But Google searches come up with nothing but anecdotes.

I knew of a guy who supposedly had video proof of an arm growing back through the power of God. He never forked over this evidence, however. I wonder why...

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10-10-2006, 06:23 PM	#29
ksskidude Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 227	Nuwanda Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Regardless of third world or not, if someone's arm spontaneuosly grew back, we would have known about it. I think my OP is a mystifying question for Christians, but than again most atheistic question's seem to stump the so-called Christian.

10-11-2006, 09:52 AM	#30
Swishy McJackass Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bryan, Texas Posts: 182	You know, with all the "miraculous healings" happening all over the world, there'd be at least ONE picture or video popping up on the internet. But Google searches come up with nothing but anecdotes. I knew of a guy who supposedly had video proof of an arm growing back through the power of God. He never forked over this evidence, however. I wonder why...

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