Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ben C Smith · 04-21-2008, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

The Greek form of this suffix means basically the same thing, since it is taken over from the Latin.

You seem to be suggesting that it originated among Latin speakers and then was borrowed by Greek speakers. Is that what you mean to say?

That is certainly how spin would have it. In fact, he insists.

I myself am a bit more open than that to the possibility that it originated among Greek speakers as an imitation of the Latin.

Ben.

Ben C Smith · 04-21-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Again, where in "Annals" did you read that Christus is Jesus of Nazareth?

I do not claim that the Annals calls him Jesus of Nazareth. I claim that the Christ in the Annals is the Jesus referred to in the gospels and the Pauline epistles.

Ben.

spin · 04-21-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

You seem to be suggesting that it originated among Latin speakers and then was borrowed by Greek speakers. Is that what you mean to say?

That is certainly how spin would have it. In fact, he insists.

I myself am a bit more open than that to the possibility that it originated among Greek speakers as an imitation of the Latin.

Here's a challenge for you, Ben C.:

Find me an ancient word in one language (1) formed from a free morpheme of that language attached to a bound morpheme of some other language (2), a bound morpheme that isn't productive elsewhere in language 1.

Oh, ETA: a bound morpheme that already has several functional equivalents in language 1.

spin

aa5874 · 04-21-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Again, where in "Annals" did you read that Christus is Jesus of Nazareth?

I do not claim that the Annals calls him Jesus of Nazareth. I claim that the Christ in the Annals is the Jesus referred to in the gospels and the Pauline epistles.

Ben.

So you NEVER saw the word "Jesus" in "Annals".

And now, the word "Christ" is NOT in 'Annals", it is "Christus".

The translators of "Annals" used "Christus", why didn't they write "Christ"?

Your statement is mis-leading and erroneous, the word "Christ" is not in "Annals".

In Josephus, the word "Christ" is clearly used by the translators, why didn't they write "Christus"?

Annals 15.44

Quote:

...Christus, the founder of the name....

Amtiquities of the Jews 18.3.3

Quote:

...He was the Christ....

Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1

Quote:

....who was called Christ....

TJ12 · 04-21-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You made a claim or suggestion that the simplest and most plausible explanation is that Jesus was a dead beloved teacher with 12 scared guys, but now you me tell it is a waste of time to discuss the so-called facts on which your statement is based.

Yes, that's correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

I have been studying this for a long time, HJers have no facts, just faith in Jesus or his authors.

I have no "faith in Jesus." Why do you keep saying that?

TJ12 · 04-21-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Sure, the point is that 12 is obviously contrived for it's theological significance. It's possible to apologize it away, but it aught to at least raise red flags.

Why? The number of disciples Jesus chose to have doesn't have any bearing on whether his mother actually got pregnant without having sex or whether he rose from the dead. It's just a piece of symbolism.

Doug Shaver · 04-21-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

I guess the disciples then made up a story about the resurrection in order to decieve us, right?

Probably not.

Doug Shaver · 04-21-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ12

Why do you keep saying that?

Because he shall not be moved.

(Queue music.)

Ben C Smith · 04-21-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

So you NEVER saw the word "Jesus" in "Annals".

Correct.

Quote:

And now, the word "Christ" is NOT in 'Annals", it is "Christus".

What are you on about? Christus is the Latin form of the Greek Χριστος; Christ is the English form of the Greek Χριστος.

Matthew 1.16, Latin (Vulgate):

Iacob autem genuit Ioseph virum Mariae de qua natus est Iesus, qui vocatur Christus.

Tacitus, Annals 15.44:

Auctor nominis eius Christus....

Ben.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-21-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Your statement is mis-leading and erroneous, the word "Christ" is not in "Annals".

Why would you expect an English term to be found in a Latin text?

Jeffrey

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