~M~

As a layman to Biblical Criticism & History or any relevant field regarding the historicity of the Jesus figure, I rely on relevant scholarly opinion to guide my beliefs. This, to me, is a rational and practical strategy; I do the same with medicine, law and many other arcane fields that I am not familiar with nor care to be. I rely on expert opinion--the more asserting one thing over another the better.

Now, I am aware of the minority voice that pleads a case for Jesus' nonexistence and while I have read the case, it, alas, flies over my head. Indeed, I have not a freakin clue as to what the fuck Doherty is talking about or his opposition for that matter.


So, what am I to do? They cannot both be true. So, if I had to bank on one hypothesis, then wouldn't I be rational to follow the one with the most scholarly support?

-M

achristianbeliever

Whenever I am confronted with someone who accepts the Jesus myth scenario I ask them for two things.

1. What is the minimalist criteria showing the historicity of any historical figure?

2. Give me an example of someone who just passes this criteria in order for me to compare them to Jesus to understand why Jesus fails.

I think that's a great request and yet I've never received an answer to this except an excuse as to why they will not do this.

Example: "Every historical person should be based on its own merits"

Well that's rather convenient. So anything I find that helps my case against Jesus historicity I can use without worrying about it screwing the historicity of anyone I do believe existed. The real reason they do this excuse is because if they do create a general criteria then they risk one of two things happening. Either they'll create a criteria that Jesus passes thus ruining their entire position or they create a criteria that Jesus fails but so do many other historical figures that it makes their criteria seem ridiculous.

Toto

When you rely on expert advice from a doctor or lawyer, it is because you know the training that they have had, and you have a problem that demands a resolution.

Why does it matter to you if Jesus existed? If you are considering devoting your life to a religion that is based on this historical existence, you should be aware that there is no scholarly consensus that there was a historical Jesus who matches the Jesus of the gospels.

But if you are thinking of devoting your life this way, you need to do the investigation yourself and not rely on any consensus of opinion.

Otherwise, it doesn't matter what you think about a historical Jesus. You have the right to not hold an opinion on the matter, to think that there was a historical Jesus, or to assume that there wasn't.

No one changes any part of their life based on weather there was a historical Socrates or not.

Toto

Please avoid these canards. The historical Jesus believers might just have more in common with ID proponents.

Zeichman

Although it may get tedious, I would recommend that you start reading books by academics on the issues concerning early Christianity. Bart Ehrman's textbook on the New Testament is very accessible and informative. From there, you can start reading more specialized books on the topic that are accessible (eg, Crossan's "Life of a Revolutionary") and work your way up to stuff for academics. It'll take at least a few years, but I think it's worth the effort.

That said, there's nothing wrong with withholding an opinion until one understands the issues better.

Chris Weimer

Except the HJ people have credible degrees, while the ID proponents overwhelmingly don't. The analogy over and over again fits the bill.

Even Darwin was part of the establishment. So bitch and moan all you want about it, the "MJ" camp is the one with the phony credentials, and the few who are credentialed are so far in the extreme as to be not even taken serious, and still are avoiding the establishment.

If you think yourself as equivalent to the Darwinist, then you've disgraced his name over and over again by this bullshit denigrating the establishment.

No Robots

Christ's beingness has a decisive impact on the human sciences. Our understanding of genius, mysticism, history, religion, Judaism, Christianity, personality, individuality, and spirituality are all inextricably tied up with our understanding of this man.

~M~

Everything is true but the bolded.




it does not take priority in my life but he is kind of a big deal, no?



I'm not...

begs the question.


offers a third alternative but begs the question....again.

Roger Pearse

If we have to -- have to -- make a decision, then surely we have to find out for ourselves?

Not that I don't agree to some degree, but I am a bit conscious that, on matters of controversy, in all ages, the consensus of scholars in the humanities tends only to reflect the consensus of those who control university appointments. There is no question of conspiracy most of the time (although not always, of course, when one view is ascending to power and arrogant with it) -- it just happens naturally.

Whether there is really any controversy among the educated about whether Jesus of Nazareth really lived, tho, is a different matter.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Soul Invictus

To some...like you, he isn't a big deal for me to much less a priority.