Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sharrock · 10-25-2007, 01:25 PM

Some very interesting analysis...

http://110559.aceboard.net/110559-97...First-half.htm

http://110559.aceboard.net/110559-97...econd-half.htm

Toto · 10-25-2007, 01:34 PM

These are "Acts and the Pauline letters decoded" from Joe Atwill's Caesar's Messiah Forum.

Summary:

Quote:

As shown in the paper posted on this site, the NT book of ‘Revelation’ is a puzzle that reveals that the ‘Lord God’ it describes was Caesar Domitian. In brief, Domitian was jealous that his brother had established himself as the ‘Christ’ and so he created his own body of literature – Acts, the Pauline letters and Revelation. These works – like the Gospels - were designed with a veiled typological level that built on top of Titus’s typological forerunner – the Jesus character in the Gospels - with a system of typology that foresaw yet another ‘Christ’ – Caesar Domitian.

Therefore, as Titus had used the historian Josephus to link to the Gospels and create the typology that reveals him as the ‘Jesus Christ’ in John 21, so Domitian used his historian Suetonius to create a history of his life that linked to Revelation and the Pauline literature and thereby show that he, not his brother, was the final ‘Christ’. By winning a petty game of literary one-upmanship with his dead brother, Domitian made himself the ‘god’ that Christians have worshipped for two thousand years.

Could you summarize a few points that you find interesting?

mountainman · 10-26-2007, 07:33 PM

Could you also ask Joe Atwill to re-present the evidence
that he has accumulated with respect to the use of the
FISH Symbol by the Flavians, on their coins specifically.

I have never seen any compelling christian FISH argument,
as to the basis for the association between early christianity
and the fish symbol.

We have of course, the inscription of Pectorius
mentioning the importance of FISH, but it is dated
rather late (at present) and unfortunately is not
by any stretch of the imagination unambiguously
christian.

Therefore, Joe Atwills evidence relating to FISH on
the Flavian coins may still prove relevant, so could
you ask him to gather it, or point at it, again.

Thanks and best wishes,

Pete Brown

bdw000 · 10-29-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Could you summarize a few points that you find interesting?

The seven seals of Revelation seem to match up very nicely to the seven appearances of the word "seal" in the Pauline letters.

Suetonius is also used to tie Paul's letters to Revelation.

The first five deified Roman emperors look like they match up with trumpet blasting and/or seals in Revelation.

Some Roman humor makes an appearance.

This NON-expert is very impressed. I would appreciate any commentary, for or against, what Atwill has said about Paul and Revelation in the above links.

This stuff should be interesting (even if you disagree) for people who like NT criticism.

If you don't like what Atwill has to say about this, share your knowledge with someone like me! I want to hear opposing views.

bdw000 · 10-29-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Could you also ask Joe Atwill to re-present the evidence
that he has accumulated with respect to the use of the
FISH Symbol by the Flavians, on their coins specifically.

I don't know if this is what you are looking for:

http://110559.aceboard.net/forum2.ph...9&login=110559

and:

http://110559.aceboard.net/forum2.ph...6&login=110559

Check out the messageboard over at caesarsmessiah if you want.

mountainman · 10-30-2007, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the links.
Here is the coin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Atwill

Posted 08/03/2007 07:03:45 AM

http://www.preteristarchive.com/ARTc...dea-capta.html

Notice the 'star' on one of coins with Titus. Thus the star, the olive branch, the fish and the anchor are found both on the Flavian coins commemorating their Judean triumph and on the walls of the ‘Christian’ catacombs of the Flavians.

Given that the Flavian Caesars flatly maintained that they were the ‘Christ’ who else but Titus could the Roman Christians have understood as the ‘son of Man’ that Jesus ‘predicted’ would encircle Jerusalem with a wall, raise the Temple and ‘lay low’ the Galilean villages?

The fact that NT scholarship has not even attempted to try and determine if Titus was the ‘son of Man’ predicted by Jesus is one of the most puzzleling oversights in human intellectual history.

10-25-2007, 01:25 PM	#1
sharrock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 80	Domitian and the Seven Seals of Revelation and Paul Some very interesting analysis... http://110559.aceboard.net/110559-97...First-half.htm http://110559.aceboard.net/110559-97...econd-half.htm

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10-26-2007, 07:33 PM	#3
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Could you also ask Joe Atwill to re-present the evidence that he has accumulated with respect to the use of the FISH Symbol by the Flavians, on their coins specifically. I have never seen any compelling christian FISH argument, as to the basis for the association between early christianity and the fish symbol. We have of course, the inscription of Pectorius mentioning the importance of FISH, but it is dated rather late (at present) and unfortunately is not by any stretch of the imagination unambiguously christian. Therefore, Joe Atwills evidence relating to FISH on the Flavian coins may still prove relevant, so could you ask him to gather it, or point at it, again. Thanks and best wishes, Pete Brown

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