stephan huller

Two versions of the same story - http://www.copts.com/english/?p=4756#more-4756

http://www.haaretz.com/news/internat...bible-1.309035

Abu Islam Ahmed Abdallah, owner of the Islamic Enlightenment Publishing House, has printed a version of the Bible that he claims is “forged,” prompting Egypt’s Coptic Church to consider filing a complaint with the Attorney General against the book, which it considers an “insult to Christianity.”

In the book’s 65-page introduction, Abdallah wrote that the Bible version had been “written before the Genesis,” noting that the reason for its publication was to prove that Christians had themselves forged the books they hold sacred.

It was not uncommon to read in the margins of some Bible versions that certain words were not original and that certain phrases had been added by transcribers, or that certain figures were incorrect, the publisher wrote. This, he added, had prompted some Christian theologians admit that their holy book was not sacred in itself, but rather represented an account of sacred events.

Coptic Bishop Abdel Messih Bassit, for his part, said the Coptic Church was “extremely offended” by the perceived “act of contempt” for Christianity.

“Do Christians have the right to publish manuscripts of the Koran from our own point of view?” he asked. “Can Christians print the Koran and add their comments to it?”

Bassit added that Abdallah did not understand the essence of the Bible, its original Hebrew and Greek versions, or the rules of translation, contending that the publisher had used differences in translations and the evolution of language as a means of discrediting the Bible.

“The translation of this version was written in Levantine Arabic 400 years ago,” Bassit explained. “With the development of language from generation to generation, the meaning of certain words was changed.”

Roger Pearse

People may not be aware that the Copts are an oppressed minority in Egypt, regularly targeted by Moslems. This is not an academic exercise.

Toto

This is a good reason not to criminalize insults to religion, or blasphemy.

The Copts previously targeted a novel as being an "insult to Chrstianity" I can sympathize with the Copts' plight, but more censorship is not the cure.

steve_bnk

Well, they did for the New Testamant. The cannon was decided in large part by committee.

Roger Pearse

I would agree, but this is where we're missing context. The context is of a state which is secular but where in fact nothing even faintly critical of Islam is allowed to be published, and violence "in defence of Islam" is endemic. The Copts merely ask for the same protection under the law as other Egyptians (you will see from the other link in the OP that they asked, pertinently, whether a Copt could publish a Koran in the same way). I have no doubt they would much rather have no censorship, since they are often the victims of it. But that isn't an option for them.

All this stuff is attacks by the majority Moslems on the Coptic minority, you see, which they are attempting to fight off.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

'Fraid not. The "Da Vinci Code" is fiction, you know.

stephan huller

Egypt represents a most complex political and religious situation for everyone involved. As much as the Copts may complain about the way things are, they would certainly only get worse if free elections were held in the country. The church itself seems to be divided to some degree between those who want to modernize ancient traditions and those who want to maintain the status quo. The society is becoming increasingly conservative. Egyptians are increasingly peppering their lives with religious symbols, and turn to fatwas to regulate their day-to-day lives. Head scarves are predominant among the country's Muslim women and men increasingly sport traditional beards. Quranic verses can be seen plastered as posters or stickers on cars, offices and homes. Even daily greetings have become Islamized, with people starting and ending their conversations by invoking God's name or words.

While there certainly is oppression and persecution against the Coptic minority the hostile social situation has likely preserved a strong religious identity within the community. Look at Christianity in Europe. What killed religious observance there? Persecution? No, it was clearly a free, PROSPEROUS, democratic society. Nothing kills the instinct for religious observance more quickly than letting people have the impression they really are the center of the universe.

The good book says 'bless those who persecute us.' The Church thrived because of the ancient persecutions. The third century blood really was the 'seed' of Nicaea. If the Romans really had wanted to destroy Christianity they probably should have crowned Peter to succeed as Emperor after Claudius.

Roger Pearse

Probably so.

I don't get the feeling that we in the west have any real idea of what goes on inside the Coptic community. Be a bit wary of what might be stereotyped ideas. In some ways the Coptic community is moving away from more westernised ideas.

Undoubtedly so.

I wonder how many people know that in the 60's, when all sorts of groups were demanding "liberation" -- usually in order to install some Mugabe-like figure! --, the Copts also sought to change things in Egypt, to be recognised as a separate nation. But since Egypt was a Soviet ally at the time, no-one was interested. The agitation led Sadat to send the Coptic Patriarch into internal exile in the Wadi Habib (the traditional place of exile of Coptic Popes in Islamic times), from which he was ultimately released by Mubarak. In many ways the Copts do behave as a separate nation, and the bishops are often more like senior/popular politicians (but not always).

The situation is not simple, and I don't claim to have a proper handle on it myself.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Doug Shaver

I have not read The Da Vinci Code, but if it says the canon was chosen by committee, the author got that part right.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be glad to have a look at it.

andrewcriddle

Which committee and when ?

Andrew Criddle