sugarhitman

Do these texts refer to the events of A.D. 70, events long before the Second Temple, or possibly future events? Are these different texts speaking of a common single event? Well lets find out shall we?


Lets look at Joel 3 first: "In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land."


It appears that this gathering of the nations occurs in a time frame after a restoration of the Jewish state. The reasons given are 1. Scattering of the Jews 2. The division of "my land". Reason number 2 is like reading a newspaper of today of the Israeli/Arab Conflict and the world's attempt to broker peace that includes among other things......the division of "Palestine".


In an Huffington Post article, after negotiations of a settlement freeze of Jewish settlements in the WB (Judea), "The leaders [will] move on to the holy city of Jerusalem for more discussions Wednesday in another symbolic gesture aimed at underscoring the importance of the negotiations, the first direct talks between the Israelis and Palestinians in almost two years.

The status of Jerusalem is one of the thorniest issues dividing the two sides. Israel claims the undivided city as its capital, while the Palestinians want the eastern part to be the capital of an eventual state."



"Divided my land"...also note what Joel says in this verse, after the judging of the nations "Then you will know that I, the LORD your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her."


Now Luke 21 seems to be repeating Joel 3 when Yeshua confided to his disciples that "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.....Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."



We see then from Yeshua's veiw that Jerusalem is the central target of the Gentiles, which according to both He and the OT prophets will be emptied of Jews for a period of time...Zecheriah has this theme as well:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest [remnant] of the people will not be taken from the city.

Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle."




Joel 3, Zech 12 and Luke 21 also has funny things going on with the sun, moon and stars:


"On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or night-time— a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light." Zech 14


"The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble." Joel 3


"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea." Luke 21



So clearly Yeshua is following the OT prophetic script in Luke 21, and interestingly tied his return to these events "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." Amazingly so does Zech 14: "Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle.

On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.....You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the *LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.*"



The Holy ones here can only be the Angels as seen in Matthew 24: " At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."




Looking at these texts we see the undeniable relationship between Jerusalem, The Scattering of the Jews, Division of Judea, Invasion of Israel by the Gentile world, and lastly the return of a Messianic figure. But ofcourse in our "progressive' age, such anti-Israelism that would lead to the above evils is impossible right?



"EU Foreign Ministers issued a statement calling for finding a solution through peace talks to resolve the status of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and Palestine. The EU statement angered Israeli leaders as they consider Jerusalem, holy for Muslims, Jews and Christians, as the eternal and undivided capital of Israel.

The vote came after Sweden presented a draft resolution calling for dividing the city. Israel said that this proposal would harm its relation with the EU and would impact EU’s ability to be a mediator in Middle East peace talks.

The ministerial draft of the EU states that it will not recognize any changes to the pre-1967 borders, including in East Jerusalem as the city was also illegal[ly] captured by Israel following the 1967 six-day war.

The draft also called for establishing a Palestinian state in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem."



Jews are quite passionate about the belief that Jerusalem belongs to them alone, and are not likely to willingly divide Jerusalem...the Arab states are so anti-Israel so much so, that if not for Israel's elite defense forces, they would have destroyed her years ago....and now the Jews have Jerusalem. It seems the EU, and East Europe are backing the Muslim states....and Jerusalem is indeed becoming ever more a "thorny issue". Is this what Zech saw in 12?



" I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.

3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves."



I believe these different texts are of common events.



Yet, Israel does not regard Jerusalem as part of the occupied territories and insists that the city is the eternal capital and will not be subject to any peace talks.

JoeWallack

JW:
Bingo!

spamandham

Yes, sugarhitman, you are correct. Jesus is returning sometime in the next 7 days.

Are you ready yet to make that bet we discussed? Time is apparently of the essence.

Doug Shaver

You can't find anything out by assuming your conclusion.

sugarhitman

Unless it is correct. I believe it is.

Doug Shaver

Sorry. Not even then.

storytime

You do realize that when Jesus returns and plants his feet on Mt. Zion and the mountain splits in two, those Jews who do not believe in Jesus as God in the flesh, he will exterminate(or cast into the lake of fire to burn forever). This is the big-time event Christians are waiting for, even pushing for "so that the scripture might be fulfilled". "Praise Jesus!"

When pushing this crap I think it should include the whole story of what is to happen to the Jews. They are the focus, the main actors on stage. And, the final solution for taking control of the middle east permanetly. Keeping this prophetic story of lies always in the future just begs for the end result that Christian fundamentalist desperately want. And, at the right time they will make it happen.

btw, it is not necessary for Jews to believe the Christian interpretation of prophecy concerning them. What's necessary is that the Christians believe it through continuous brainwashing in their churches.

bacht

You've got the fundamentalist prophecy disease. We already went through this silliness with Hal Lindsey.

Until you lose the magical voodoo view of scripture, a rational conversation about Hebrew prophecy isn't possible.

spamandham

"And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, and they'll know we are Christians by our love."

That violent cult is just as awful as Islam.

Nero's Boot

.....if Jesus comes down, I will do everything in my power to travel to Israel and explain the nature of fig trees to the Lord.

--for the son of God, certain basic laws of nature seem to incomprehensible to him NB