Vinnie

:notworthy

Put that on a webpage!

diana

That was beautifully argued, Vork.

I often think that those who think slavery isn't such a bad idea are operating under the unspoken assumption that they themselves will be the free class.

I remain amazed at how many African Americans are Christians, despite the bible's clear stance on slavery (and the fact that the bible was used to argue slavery was Christianly).

d

Madkins007

Thank you- that was very helpful!

shunyadragon

Slavery is slavery by any name. It was dehumanizing and cruel for all slaves except for the ellite in the OT, Rome, the US and throughout history.

I have followed and participated in the debates with the Christians. Their strategy is basically to put a kinder an gentler shroud over slavery in the bible in hopesthe controversy will go away. They slant the slavery toward indentured servitude and enlightend serfdom. They acknowledge some violence, abuse and problems, but constantly emphasis the positive quotes of the more enlightened view.

Of course all this is baloney, slavery in the OT and NT was most often cruel and brutal. Indentured servitude in the OT was for Hebrews only.

Rome was a slave state and Christianity is basically a Roman religion in the NT and slavery was an accepted institution in both. It is indeed unfortunate for many people and history that Jesus or the apostles did not take a stand against slavery, but of course if they did they may not have been accepted by Rome and become a world religion.

Norseman

Another outbreak of SASE!

(Severe Acute Schizophrenic Endemia)

blueshuttle

Here are some great quotes from Charles Bradlaugh about slavery:

"It is scarcely a quarter of a century since the famous emancipation amendment was carried to the United States Constitution; and it is impossible for any well-informed Christian to deny that the abolition movement in North America was most steadily and bitterly opposed by the religious bodies in the various States. Henry Wilson, in his Rise and Fall of the Slave-Power in America; Samuel J. May, in his Recollection of the Anti-Slavery Conflict, and J. Greenleaf Whittier, in his poems, alike are witnesses that the Bible and pulpit, the church and its great influence, were used against abolition and in favor of the slaveowner."

- Charles Bradlaugh, Humanity’s Gain From Unbelief, 1889

The Midge

Hi Only my second post.

Not being party to that board I have missed what may have been an interesting discussion. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that those texts authorize slavery. In the spirit of "going the extra mile" they are instructions to Christian slaves on how to live and be a witness or demonstrate the Christian Way to their masters, that is to be of better service than the owner would have any right to expect.

Roller

Pretty much the same way. African slaves were captured in wars or just snatched from their villages and then transported to New World. Around 340,000 people was brought to British America (for comparison, some 3,500,000 ended up in Brazil)*. In 1807 the Atlantic slave trade was banned (provision came from the Constitution in 1787). Since then, no new slaves came from Africa. However, slaveowners managed to increase slave numbers to around 4,500,000 before Civil War. As Thomas Jefferson once said "I consider a [slave] woman who brings [gives birth to] a child every two years as more profitable than the best man on the farm. What she produces is an addition to the capital, while his labors disappear in mere consumption."**

* Philip D. Curtin, The Atlantic Slave Trade: A Census. University of Wisconsin Press , 1969. p 268.
** Darlene Clark Hine, et al. African Americans: A Concise History. Prentice Hall, 2004. p 88.

Stephen_BostonMA

Telling slaves to submit to their perverse masters is implying that slavery is something tolerable. Sure, it isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement, but it sounds like tacit authorization to me. The well being of the slave has less importance (if any at all) than obedience to the perverse master. And, there's the fact that slave owners could be considered "good and equitable."

funinspace

See Ex 21:20-21, I posted it earlier in the thread. So the Hebrew Bible (HB) explicitely allow for slavery by Jews. And it is a brutal form of slavery...oops, I killed a slave too fast, better go sacrifice a healthy goat. The NT says nothing against it. That is how one can conclude the NT is ok with it. Find a verse in the NT that condemns (or even criticizes it) slave ownership, like it condemns homosexuality.

DK