Freethought & Rationalism Archive

paarsurrey · 01-27-2008, 06:36 AM

Hi

I want to have some information about Christianity, if somebody please provide.

1. I understand that at the time of coronation of King Edward VII, a version of New Testament was presented to him consisting on about 60 books in one binding cover (normally it consist on 27 books) . I want to have its reference from some authoritative source.
2. Paul is said to have stated that speaking falsehood and fabrications to support Christianity is allowed and appreciable. I want to have its reference.

Thanks

Toto · 01-27-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

I want to have some information about Christianity, if somebody please provide.

1. I understand that at the time of coronation of King Edward VII, a version of New Testament was presented to him consisting on about 60 books in one binding cover (normally it consist on 27 books) . I want to have its reference from some authoritative source.

The extra books were the apocrypha.

Quote:

When the British and Foreign Bible Society undertook to provide the copy of the bible for presentation to King Edward VII at his coronation in 1902, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Frederick Temple) ruled that a 'mutilated bible' (one lacking the Apocrypha) was unacceptable for the purpose, and as the Society was prevented by its constitution from providing a 'non mutilated' edition, a suitable copy has to be procured at short notice from another source.

F.F. Bruce, The Canon of Scripture (or via: amazon.co.uk), p. 113

Quote:

2. Paul is said to have stated that speaking falsehood and fabrications to support Christianity is allowed and appreciable. I want to have its reference.

Thanks

I dont think he actually said this in so many words.

ApostateAbe · 01-27-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

I want to have some information about Christianity, if somebody please provide.

1. I understand that at the time of coronation of King Edward VII, a version of New Testament was presented to him consisting on about 60 books in one binding cover (normally it consist on 27 books) . I want to have its reference from some authoritative source.
2. Paul is said to have stated that speaking falsehood and fabrications to support Christianity is allowed and appreciable. I want to have its reference.

Thanks

Toto seems to have provided for your first request. As for the second request, you may safely dismiss it. Paul never wrote such a thing as far as we know, nor did anyone quote him as saying that.

Toto · 01-27-2008, 06:52 PM

There are some indications that Paul was willing to spin the truth for a higher purpose:

Quote:

Although I am free from everyone, I have enslaved myself to all of them in order to win a larger number. To the Jews I behave as a Jew; to those under the Law as one who is under the Law, although I am not under the Law, to gain those who are under the Law. To those who are without law I am without law, although not lawless toward God but committed to Christ’s Law, in order to win those who are without law

1 Corinthians 9:19

There is a verse that is sometimes quoted as claiming that Paul said it was okay to lie, but he was actually attacking others who said that:

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" Romans 3.7

Or at least that's the story.

There is a long discussion of lying for God here:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm

ApostateAbe · 01-27-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There are some indications that Paul was willing to spin the truth for a higher purpose:

Quote:

Although I am free from everyone, I have enslaved myself to all of them in order to win a larger number. To the Jews I behave as a Jew; to those under the Law as one who is under the Law, although I am not under the Law, to gain those who are under the Law. To those who are without law I am without law, although not lawless toward God but committed to Christ’s Law, in order to win those who are without law

1 Corinthians 9:19

There is a verse that is sometimes quoted as claiming that Paul said it was okay to lie, but he was actually attacking others who said that:

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" Romans 3.7

Or at least that's the story.

There is a long discussion of lying for God here:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm

I think the example given in 1 Corinthians 9:19 is simply a good persuasive technique, and it may be somewhat deceitful. You assume the belief system of your audience in your speech, so that your message will be accepted. I do it all the time, but I don't think of myself as a liar.

The example given in Romans 3 is clearly an example of Paul being explicitly unwilling to lie in order to advance his cause, as seen in the next verse:

⁸And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.

The condemnation is just, says Paul. Lying in the cause of righteousness is still a sin.

paarsurrey · 01-27-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

I want to have some information about Christianity, if somebody please provide.

1. I understand that at the time of coronation of King Edward VII, a version of New Testament was presented to him consisting on about 60 books in one binding cover (normally it consist on 27 books) . I want to have its reference from some authoritative source.

The extra books were the apocrypha.

Hi

Thank you very much for helping me.

mountainman · 01-27-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

in 1902, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Frederick Temple) ruled that a 'mutilated bible' (one lacking the Apocrypha) was unacceptable for the purpose, and as the Society was prevented by its constitution from providing a 'non mutilated' edition, a suitable copy has to be procured at short notice from another source.

Was this practice continued?

I mean the practice of referring to the standard
edition of the bible as "mutilated"?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

paarsurrey · 01-27-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

in 1902, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Frederick Temple) ruled that a 'mutilated bible' (one lacking the Apocrypha) was unacceptable for the purpose, and as the Society was prevented by its constitution from providing a 'non mutilated' edition, a suitable copy has to be procured at short notice from another source.

Was this practice continued?

I mean the practice of referring to the standard
edition of the bible as "mutilated"?

Hi

That is a good point.

Thanks

paarsurrey · 01-27-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:
When the British and Foreign Bible Society undertook to provide the copy of the bible for presentation to King Edward VII at his coronation in 1902, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Frederick Temple) ruled that a 'mutilated bible' (one lacking the Apocrypha) was unacceptable for the purpose, and as the Society was prevented by its constitution from providing a 'non mutilated' edition, a suitable copy has to be procured at short notice from another source.

F.F. Bruce, The Canon of Scripture, p. 113

[QUOTE=Toto;5118492]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

The extra books were the apocrypha.

Hi

Is it possible for you to PM me a copy of page. 113 of the above quoted book?

Thanks

Toto · 01-28-2008, 12:27 AM

Sorry - I don't have that book. I picked up the quote from an Amazon review.

But you can review F.F. Bruce's History of the Bible in English on Google Books here.

It appears that the controversy over the Apocrypha happened in the 18th and 19th centuries.

01-27-2008, 06:36 AM	#1
paarsurrey Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,061	I want to have some information about Christianity Hi I want to have some information about Christianity, if somebody please provide. 1. I understand that at the time of coronation of King Edward VII, a version of New Testament was presented to him consisting on about 60 books in one binding cover (normally it consist on 27 books) . I want to have its reference from some authoritative source. 2. Paul is said to have stated that speaking falsehood and fabrications to support Christianity is allowed and appreciable. I want to have its reference. Thanks

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-28-2008, 12:27 AM	#10
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Sorry - I don't have that book. I picked up the quote from an Amazon review. But you can review F.F. Bruce's History of the Bible in English on Google Books here. It appears that the controversy over the Apocrypha happened in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.