Duke Leto

You'd think there'd be more scholarship on this. I can't find much.

Was the original oral tradition of the sacrifice of Abraham's son one of Isaac or Ishmael and was the Holy Land his descendants were promised as a result of this alleged covenant the environs of Jerusalem or the environs of Mecca? Or even someplace else entirely?

Is it universally accepted outside of Islamic scholarship that the Abraham tradition originated with the Israelites and made its way to Mecca by Jewish travelers or merchants? Do any think there might have been an Abraham tradition in both regions before the Israelites emerged?

I have no answers I'm just curious.

andrewcriddle

The account in Genesis has the offering of Isaac occurring in the region of Moriah. Genesis does not make clear where Moriah is but it is apparently about 3 days journey from Beersheba.

2 Chronicles 3:1 identifies Moriah with the site of the temple at Jerusalem but this is a later tradition than the Genesis account.

Andrew Criddle

Duvduv

There are contradictory traditions in Islam about this issue. Some traditions claim the sacrifice was indeed Isaac as described in the Torah (which the Muslims accept) while other traditions claim it was Ishmael. The incident however is not mentioned in the Quran at all.

DCHindley

Duvduv,

I love the way you, an Orthodox Jew, can deal with Islamic tradition in a neutral manner. No rancour, no attempts to dismiss it as nothing. Now if only Christians and Athiests/Sceptics could do the same with Judaism.

Thanks for your perspective.

FWIW, Robert Eisenman, in James the Brother of Jesus, looks at the possibility that "Abraham" (like) tradition was common in "Arabia" (a term which in Ancient times could include the area in Northern Mesopotamia now part of Iraq as well as lower Syria and the Arabian peninsula proper). He suggests that Paul may have developed his "faith of Abraham" doctrine during his years in "Arabia."

DCH

outhouse

Abraham being a 100% literary creation in the 5th and 6th century, more then likely came back with the Israelites after the Babylonian exile. More then likely there was Mesopotamian legends of a man who worshipped El, but this tradition is not only unknown, the israelite version likely shares very little at all with the mesopotamian version.

There is no source material that one could even base a scholarship on from mesopotamian mythology, to follow the evolution of the abraham mythology

Duke Leto

OK. The question remains... how the hell did it get to Arabia?

outhouse

when arabs used the bible as a foundation for their religion, when they copied it in their version


originated in mesopotamia, like alot of mythology has unique to them.


much of early Israelite mythology is heavily influenced by Mesopotamian mythology.


Mesopotamian mythoogy has a long track record of evolving as its one of the older cultures with writing.



its like asking where did Chinese mythology come from

Duvduv

That's an interesting comment, DCH. It really is a thread all on its own though not relevant to this Discussion Board. I am fascinated by the idea of the origin of Shia Islam being similar to the origins of Christianity. I often challenge claims of "evidence" that are in fact really based in faith.

That's easy for me because I myself admit to having faith in things that cannot be empirically proven.