Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sotto voce · 03-09-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Is "Love your neighbour as yourself" too little, or too much?

It's Jewish. OT. Leviticus.

Actually that has been shown to be common across historical cultures in one form or another. Do unto others as you would have them do to you, or the r the golden rule.

Quite so. Is that sufficient instruction? Or insufficient? Can one use it as a criterion for assessing Christian conversion?

steve_bnk · 03-09-2012, 10:27 AM

All depends what you mean by pagan.

According to my Oxford Bible commentary tne primary Jewish/pagan dichotomy was over sexuality.

Today Hefner would be a leading pagan.

steve_bnk · 03-09-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Actually that has been shown to be common across historical cultures in one form or another. Do unto others as you would have them do to you, or the r the golden rule.

Quite so. Is that sufficient instruction? Or insufficient? Can one use it as a criterion for assessing Christian conversion?

Do not know. I have listened to Christians talk about their born again experience. It can be a profiound life change, as in a complete personal transformation.

sotto voce · 03-09-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Actually that has been shown to be common across historical cultures in one form or another. Do unto others as you would have them do to you, or the r the golden rule.

Quite so. Is that sufficient instruction? Or insufficient? Can one use it as a criterion for assessing Christian conversion?

Do not know.

Ok.

If someone says, "Follow my religion, or suffer," is that loving one's neighbour as oneself?

steve_bnk · 03-09-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Do not know.

Ok.

If someone says, "Follow my religion, or suffer," is that loving one's neighbour as oneself?

From a recent PBS show on Christianty one should look at the four gosples as written by different poelat differnt times from different perspctives.

The JC runs from the antagonistc wise ass gadfly to the serene Sermon On The mount. There is no consistent message or theolgy in the gosples, which is why Paul ends up being important. He elaborates and defines creating what came to be modern western Christianity.

Christians do have a principle of love the sinner hate the sin.

Goping by Paul, the early believers were supposed to avoid civil authority and settle disputes within the group. Offenders were shunned. To them neighbors may be limited ti fellow believers.

I think in Leviticus Jews were enjoined to be kind to strangers.

sotto voce · 03-09-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Do not know.

Ok.

If someone says, "Follow my religion, or suffer," is that loving one's neighbour as oneself?

From a recent PBS show

Let's take that as "No."

So it follows that the religion set up by Constantine was not Christian. One may not know who is a Christian, but one can certainly know who isn't one.

Duvduv · 03-09-2012, 11:26 AM

How does Constantine rule on such things when he himself is said to have only converted on his death bed and didn't make Christianity the official religion, but merely assisted Christians with government funding?? This sounds like things legends are made of......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Constantine ruled that every man and his family report to be baptized, with severe restrictions and penalties for any who didn't. It wasn't yet quite a 'forced conversion', (one could still 'choose' not to be baptized) but it certainly was a coerced one.
Records were kept of whom was baptized and whom was not.
Soon enough those not were deprived of their homes, possessions, (all confiscated for the Church) and rights to engage in their professions, and most other civil rights. To not go along, and accept baptism as a Christian, was close to signing ones, and ones families death warrant.

steve_bnk · 03-09-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

From a recent PBS show

Let's take that as "No."

So it follows that the religion set up by Constantine was not Christian. One may not know who is a Christian, but one can certainly know who isn't one.

The Romans always considered state reigion as an essential element of maintaining order. Christianity existed, he did not create it or fefine it. He fostered the unification effort that became the RCC.

The council reached a consensus on a coimmon expression of faith and theology.

sotto voce · 03-09-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

From a recent PBS show

Let's take that as "No."

So it follows that the religion set up by Constantine was not Christian. One may not know who is a Christian, but one can certainly know who isn't one.

The Romans always considered state reigion as an essential element of
maintaining order.

Why did they do that?

Diogenes the Cynic · 03-09-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

Actually that has been shown to be common across historical cultures in one form or another. Do unto others as you would have them do to you, or the r the golden rule.

Quite so. Is that sufficient instruction? Or insufficient? Can one use it as a criterion for assessing Christian conversion?

It's Jewish, not Christian.

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03-09-2012, 10:27 AM	#22
steve_bnk Contributor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,602	All depends what you mean by pagan. According to my Oxford Bible commentary tne primary Jewish/pagan dichotomy was over sexuality. Today Hefner would be a leading pagan.

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