nogods4me

You're kidding, right? Look at old news footage of forced (by the law) segregation. Do all those white people throwing rocks and sticks look like their hearts and minds were changed? Do the cops beating up civil rights marchers look like they had changed hearts and minds?

Shake

First off, here's the HNN story on the same.

Second, I agree that the timing could have been better. After the '06 Congressional elections, for instance.

Further, not only is uG a "johnny come lately", I'm pretty sure that if Rev Francis Bellamy had thought it appropriate to mention God, he would have done so when he authored the PoA!

Finally, some of you are talking about polls — where are the links, please?

eta: Here's the link for the Lou Dobbs poll which, as I write this after having voted myself, stands at 5,158-3,402 (a 60/40 split) agreeing that uG renders the PoA unConstitutional! :thumbs:

Jakanapes

ha ha, I will go on record right now as saying that there will NEVER be another constitutional amendment EVER. It's just too hard to get people to agree on anything these days.

I would like to see some other groups join into the "under God" fight from a religious background, like the VA case, though. Good for public opinion.

I honestly can't understand how people just don't see the violation here...

It'd be like saying.."Oh, I know we said we wouldn't use the color blue in the flag, but the blue in the flag isn't really blue, it's just green without the yellow."

Styrofoam

I'd use a different analogy for the ruling in the VA case..."Yes, I am aware the Constitution states that the flag shall not have the color blue in it. But the addition of blue stripes to the flag does not alter the nature of the flag as a red and white flag."

Lunawalk

Those white people throwing rocks and cops beating up civil rights marchers helped common Americans see the brutality of racism.It galvanized American and whorl What I am saying is that the public image of atheists in the minds of common Americans must change. I am sure those people attacking civil rights marchers still feel hatred for black people but it underground or muted. Because it not tolerated by society.
The Same thing with same sex marriage activists pushed too soon and as a result peoples overacted and voted against same sex marriage proposals and reelcted George Bush. People werent ready for it. I think those unnessary lawsuits will do more harm than good. I am concerned that it will energize the right wingers in this country.

dancer_rnb

The first of these cases, brought by the JW, was back in the 1940s. How long should we wait?

Lunawalk

When the public image of atheists improves. These lawsuits with cause backlash from conservative Christians and the rest of the right wing. like it or not they control this country. They will try to pass an constriction amendment making the pledge constitutional. Once public view of atheists improves they will see we feel left out of being Americans

dettus

I disagree. The longer we wait, the harder it becomes. Fight at every turn.

edb

To make a constitutional amendment would require 2/3 of the Congress, plus 3/4 of the states to ratify it. I don't think it could happen. This country is split 50/50, not 75/25.

So let's get the pledge fixed now, and not worry about an amendment. The civil rights cause got the laws changed first, then the people started realizing how bigoted they were being. And, yes, there are still plenty of bigots around - they just don't have the voice that they used to.

This case is making the headlines. Many people are saying it's attacking religion, just leave well enough alone, etc. But, many people ("fence-sitters") are maybe looking at this, and thinking, hey, maybe this isn't right - maybe this should be changed. The seed needed to shift the paradigm has to be first sowed.

dancer_rnb

Part of the problem is the idea that it is just atheists that have problems with the pledge. Jehovah's Witnesses are not atheists. Neither are mennonites or other anabaptists. Nor would anyone who believes there is no proof their god favors this or any country.