Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Random Evil Guy · 01-09-2006, 01:06 PM

ok, i noticed this on another board, where some christian claims the bible Prophecizes the exact date of the founding of israel on may 14. 1948.

some quote from the bible, unsure as to where. think it is daniel 9:5

Quote:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

then the lunacy starts:

Quote:

In Biblical times they used 360 day years. They also had a concept of Sabbath years wherein the Sabbath year was the seventh year in the sequence of a Sabbath week, or seven years. The seventh year being the "sabbath year" (You can read all about this concept in Leviticus)If you cypher this all out you get a total of 173,880 days. Or 69 "Sabbath weeks"

The OK to restore and build Jerusalem was given to Israel by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C and it is exactly this time interval until Y'shua presented Himself as Moshiach Nagid, Messiah the king on April 6 32 AD. The only time that Y'shua presented Himself as king is on this day of His triumphal entry into Jerusalem. This is TO THE VERY DAY.

And it is verified that the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Tanahk, which contains the book of Daniel was compiled almost three hundred years before the birth of Y'shua. This is so accurate that many scholars have said that Daniel must have been written later, a view that is not supported by the evidence. Also this fails to take into account that the prophecy of the restoration of Israel as a sovereign nation on May 15th 1948 is just as accurate. We know that the book of Daniel was written well before 1948.

Do the math yourself, and don't forget to correct for leap years.

has anyone heard this ridiculous claim before?

cont.

Random Evil Guy · 01-09-2006, 01:07 PM

more:

Quote:

Well, this is bit more complex, but the Book of Leviticus tells us that if the people do not repent while being punished then the punishment will be multiplied by seven.

When the Israelites captivity in Babylon was over most of them decided to stay, because they figured they didn't do anything wrong so why repent. By staying in Pagan Babylon they were refusing to repent the sin that brough this Captivity on them, the failure to keep the Sabbath and Jubilee years decreed by God.

This caused their remaining time until the actual final restoration of Israel to be multiplyed by seven. ( a few went back, but most stayed so this first restoration was temporary, to bring forth the Messiah who was then cut-off)

How do we know this amount of time? In Ezekiel 4:5-6, the prophet records the period determined by God as punishment for Israel's disobedience:
"For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and
ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year."

This is 360 (Jewish 360 day calendar) multiplied by seven. You get 2520 Jewish lunar years. This works out to be 907,200 days.

From the decree of Longimanus to restore Israel and the Temple to the date of the declaration of the restoration of Israel is exactly such an interval.

Random Evil Guy · 01-09-2006, 01:08 PM

i guess what i'm wondering about is this:
1.it is obviously wrong, but exactly where?

2.where does this claim originate from?

Julian · 01-09-2006, 01:14 PM

Daniel is a 'prophecy' that refers to the Alexander the Great's legacy and the Seleucids. It is not really a prophecy because it was written after the fact.

Julian

Random Evil Guy · 01-09-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

Daniel is a 'prophecy' that refers to the Alexander the Great's legacy and the Seleucids. It is not really a prophecy because it was written after the fact.

Julian

sorry. it was ezekiel 4:5 i think now.

Julian · 01-09-2006, 01:23 PM

Actually, no. The common claim is that Daniel predicts Jesus. The fundies do this by 'interpreting' the year of the start of the weeks of years, moving it much later than it actually was. I have never heard the claim that your refer to. I suspect that whoever is making this claim cannot be too popular with the fundies who use Daniel to support Jesus.

Julian

Random Evil Guy · 01-09-2006, 01:26 PM

i have read up on this a bit now and see that it is a quite common claim. will use the search button...

lpetrich · 01-09-2006, 07:55 PM

First, this using a 360-day year is just plain wrong. Jews have traditionally used a lunisolar calendar, that is, a lunar calendar with an extra month added every now and then to stay in sync with the Sun's apparent motion.

Furthermore, the present State of Israel is not quite a fulfullment of prophecy in some ways. It is not ruled by a monarch who is a successor of King David, but instead by a representative democracy. Also, its territory is largely outside the ancient-Israelite homeland of the highlands north and south of Jerusalem, but more the "Philistine" lowlands near the coast. That homeland is nowadays the "West Bank".

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01-09-2006, 01:08 PM	#3
Random Evil Guy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 2,159	i guess what i'm wondering about is this: 1.it is obviously wrong, but exactly where? 2.where does this claim originate from?

01-09-2006, 01:14 PM	#4
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	Daniel is a 'prophecy' that refers to the Alexander the Great's legacy and the Seleucids. It is not really a prophecy because it was written after the fact. Julian

01-09-2006, 01:23 PM	#6
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	Actually, no. The common claim is that Daniel predicts Jesus. The fundies do this by 'interpreting' the year of the start of the weeks of years, moving it much later than it actually was. I have never heard the claim that your refer to. I suspect that whoever is making this claim cannot be too popular with the fundies who use Daniel to support Jesus. Julian

01-09-2006, 01:26 PM	#7
Random Evil Guy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 2,159	i have read up on this a bit now and see that it is a quite common claim. will use the search button...

01-09-2006, 07:55 PM	#8
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	First, this using a 360-day year is just plain wrong. Jews have traditionally used a lunisolar calendar, that is, a lunar calendar with an extra month added every now and then to stay in sync with the Sun's apparent motion. Furthermore, the present State of Israel is not quite a fulfullment of prophecy in some ways. It is not ruled by a monarch who is a successor of King David, but instead by a representative democracy. Also, its territory is largely outside the ancient-Israelite homeland of the highlands north and south of Jerusalem, but more the "Philistine" lowlands near the coast. That homeland is nowadays the "West Bank".

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