bacht

There seems to be a parallel story in ch 12:


And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?"

Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And after that no one dared to ask him any question.


a couple of questions:

- is Mark making a direct statement here of his own belief? is he supporting the traditional Pharisaical approach to righteousness through following the Torah? there's no mention of a messiah or day of judgment
- is the scribe a foil for the rich man in ch. 10? does he represent a proper approach to scripture, maybe echoing the words of rabbis like Gamaliel or Hillel?

JoeWallack

JW:
"Mark" has a major source of Paul (see OutSourcing Paul, A Contract Labor of Love Another's(Writings). Paul as Markan Source). The most important theme is Discipleship. The Key Discipleship individual story in "Mark" is The Parable of the Sower http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_4. Note that after the Parable "Mark's" Jesus adds:

Think of a surprise birthday party. The purpose of keeping it secret is so that it can be revealed. Very clever use of Ironic contrast. If there is anything Divine about the Christian bible it is the literary skill of this author. This agrees with Paul that Jesus was hidden in the Jewish Bible so that he could be Revealed to Paul.

The question for purposes of this Thread is when did Jesus' requirements for Discipleship "come to light"?:

1) At the Text level during the Ministry?

2) At the Text level after the Ministry?

3) At the Sub-Text level for the author's Community?

4) At the Sub-Text level for the Reader?

5) Never?

The Literary term "Mark" uses to rate Jesus' Discipleship is "follow". The Narrative is an extreme Ironic Greek Tragedy where Jesus' soul purpose is to teach people to follow him. He inherits an enthusiastic setting at the start of his Ministry where All are looking for him. At the end of his Ministry the author makes clear that No one is following Jesus Figuratively or Literally.

Christian bible scholarship generally assumes "Mark's" conclusion that he intends a rehabilitation of the Disciples which is not shown and which than yields a successful Ministry. I think it's an open question though whether "Mark" intended a successful Ministry at any level. The Irony, which is more important to "Mark" than Jesus, works best with Failure. "Marks" Jesus needs more Irony in his die(t). An intent of Failure clearly makes "Mark" Entertainment rather than Theology and the more unclear "Mark's" Theology the more likely it is Entertainment.

"Mark's" requirements for El are a subset of the requirements for Discipleship and are laid out in the story of the "one":

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_10

1) Follow Commandments

2) Forgo Wealth

3) Follow Jesus

The "one's" story was an expanded explanation of 2). The scribe's story is an expanded explanation of 1). As a side note, Ironically Christians of our time generally don't follow any of these.

JW:
What "Mark" is doing here is writing a story so again, we have a range of possibilities from Entertainment to Theology. The Scribe's story is helping to explain the Commandments requirement from the "one's" story so I don't think it negates the Messiah and Judgment Day themes as those are covered under the "follow" requirement.

JW:
Again, the scribe story is helping to explain the follow the commandments requirement. An emphasis on Faith in God and preference for Ethics over ritual.

Note the Ironic ending to the story:

"And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And after that no one dared to ask him any question."

While Jesus is intentionally confusing people with Parables everyone continues to ask Jesus questions when they shouldn't because they can't understand him. Finally someone sincerely asks Jesus a relevant question and Jesus responds with a direct, useful and understandable answer. The result is everyone is than afraid to ask Jesus any questions. This is Art, not history.



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark

JoeWallack

JW:
It's clear by now that "Mark" has no clear instruction for EL at the Text level. As a side note this is evidence that "Mark" is not only not based on historical witness but is anti-historical witness as the author makes clear that the most important instruction for Christians, how to obtain El, was never understood by Jesus' contemporary audience.

We move on to the next possible level of understanding, the Sub-text, or Reader level. Did "Mark" give clear instruction for El at the Sub-text level?

From a Literary standpoint "Mark's" key to understanding the Gospel as a whole is the very critical (so to speak) Parable of the Sower:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_4

JW:
"Mark" provides a context for his Gospel of Discipleship. As always, "Mark" provides 3 ("3 sir, 3") obstacles for Discipleship:

1) Satan (the scapegoat of all religions. If blame does not fall under any other category, blame it on Satan?)

2) Persecutions (that's gotta hurt)

3) Riches (material concerns)

After the obstacles are given "Mark" adds:

This confirms that "Mark's" Jesus intended to hide clear instruction for El at the Text level and implies that he intended to make it clear at the Sub-text level. But does "Mark's" Jesus make it clear at the Sub-text level?

Christian Bible scholarship has always assumed that the Father of the Jesus' narrative ("Mark") and Jesus are one in intent. But are they? Could there be a difference between "Mark's" Jesus' intent and what "Mark" intended such as "Mark" intended to show that his Jesus intended to be a success but was a Failure?



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

JW:
"Mark" provides a context for his Gospel of Discipleship. As always, "Mark" provides 3 ("3 sir, 3") obstacles for Discipleship:

1) Satan (the scapegoat of all religions. If blame does not fall under any other category, blame it on Satan?)

2) Persecutions (that's gotta hurt)

3) Riches (material concerns)

After the obstacles are given "Mark" adds:

This confirms that "Mark's" Jesus intended to hide clear instruction for El at the Text level and implies that he intended to make it clear at the Sub-text level. But does "Mark's" Jesus make it clear at the Sub-text level?

Regarding 1) Satan) "Mark" gives no clear expanded explanation at the Sub-text level. The Implication from "Mark" as a whole is that Satan is the Opposition.

Regarding 2) Persecutions, "Mark's" detail explanation seems to come in the LA-LA (Little Apocalypse)

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_13

Summary of persecution:
1) deliver you up to councils

2) in synagogues shall ye be beaten

3) before governors and kings shall ye stand

4) And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death.

5) ye shall be hated of all men

This explanation is relatively clear by "Mark's" standards. The Disciples of Jesus should always be witnessing and testifying for Jesus and Endure persecution to do so. "Mark" strengthens this instruction at the Sub-text level by having Jesus endure 1) - 5) via narrative. Ironically, in the real world, Christians have primarily inflicted 1) - 5) rather than endured them.

The La-La seems to be the best evidence in "Mark" that it was intended to be Theology as it looks like the one place in "Mark" where the author is talking directly to the Reader (let the Reader understand) and the most important requirement of Discipleship per Paul is Enduring Affliction and it has the most detailed explanation and predictions. For all the same reasons though it works very well as Entertainment ending up very anti-climactic in a work with an anti-climactic theme and is a standard comedy gag where grand and detail instructions are given and than contrasted with a brief dismissal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km7WD8wkb1c



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Clivedurdle

Is Mark an extremely skilfully written document, composed by a master craftsman like Seneca?

aa5874

If it is assumed that the author of gMark wrote the first Jesus story, then this author was extremely skilfull.

It would appear that the author managed to write a completely believable Jesus story so much so that others, like the authors of Matthew, Luke, John and all the Pauls propagated Mark's Jesus story as fundamentally true.