Freethought & Rationalism Archive

arnoldo · 03-11-2010, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

www. jesus never existed .com

"For all who would struggle against the tragedy of religion"

Do you really think it all began with a sanctimonious Jewish wonder-worker, strolling about 1st century Palestine? Prepare to be enlightened.

Jesus – The Imaginary Friend

Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs. Following a star would lead you in circles. The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin. That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses.

Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road. "Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure" ? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.

What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

Johnny Skeptic · 03-11-2010, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

"Elementary my dear Watson." (William Shakespeare)

Dr. Richard Carrier
Why I Don't Buy the Resurrection Story
The Rubicon Analogy
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...n/rubicon.html

arnoldo · 03-11-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

"Elementary my dear Watson." (William Shakespeare)

"All the world's a stage." (Neil Peart)

Johnny Skeptic · 03-11-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

There is plenty, as you of course already know.

Dr. Richard Carrier
Why I Don't Buy the Resurrection Story
The Rubicon Analogy
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...n/rubicon.html

arnoldo · 03-11-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

There is plenty, as you of course already know.

So you admit there is historical evidence for a person who was considered to be a god. Is it possible that a similar coin bearing the image of Caesar;

. . .was the one Jesus refered to in the following statement?

Quote:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (“Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ”) (Matthew 22:21).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar

show_no_mercy · 03-11-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

There is plenty, as you of course already know.

So you admit there is historical evidence for a person who was considered to be a god. Is it possible that a similar coin bearing the image of Caesar;

Most non-Jewish kings and emperors were considered gods. The abberation is the deification of a Jew... when a "kingdom of Israel" didn't even exist.

However, there is evidence of a Jewish messiah who wasn't deified and who was a prince of the last Jewish kingdom in history (132-135 CE):

Temple facade, the Ark of the Covenant within; star above (bar-Kokhba... "son of the star")

trumpets surrounded by "To the freedom of Jerusalem". Reverse: A lyre surrounded by "Year two to the freedom of Israel"

Toto · 03-11-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

www. jesus never existed .com

"For all who would struggle against the tragedy of religion"

...

Abe - I guess this is part of your totally unscientific survey of the relationship between mythicism and opposition to Christianity, but you seem to have fooled arnoldo into dragging this off topic.

The author of JesusNeverExisted is Kenneth Humphreys, a well known mythicist. Have you just discovered this?

ETA: Do you agree that the evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar is much more substantial than that for Jesus Christ?

aa5874 · 03-11-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

[Q
What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

The existence or non-existence of Julius Caesar has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus of the NT.

The abundance of evidence described Jesus as equal to God who was the Creator of heaven and earth, the offspring of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin with no human father.

It is completely obvious that Julius Caesar has no effect whatsoever on the description provided by the authors of the Canon and Church writers.

arnoldo · 03-11-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

[Q
What is this evidence that Julius Caesar was a real historical figure?

The existence or non-existence of Julius Caesar has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus of the NT.

The abundance of evidence described Jesus as equal to God who was the Creator of heaven and earth, the offspring of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin with no human father.

So would you deny that there were no RDA between Jesus and the rest of humanity? (See below for definition of RDA)

Quote:

Originally Posted by radical_logic

. . .In contrast, there is what I call the Naturally Relevant Difference Assumption (RDA), which states:
RDA: There probably could have existed naturally relevant differences (e.g. physiological, technological, etc) between Jesus and the rest of humanity that would have enabled Jesus to rise naturally. . .
First Rebuttal: Part 1

aa5874 · 03-11-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The existence or non-existence of Julius Caesar has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus of the NT.

The abundance of evidence described Jesus as equal to God who was the Creator of heaven and earth, the offspring of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin with no human father.

So would you deny that there were no RDA between Jesus and the rest of humanity? (See below for definition of RDA)

Quote:

Originally Posted by radical_logic

. . .In contrast, there is what I call the Naturally Relevant Difference Assumption (RDA), which states:
RDA: There probably could have existed naturally relevant differences (e.g. physiological, technological, etc) between Jesus and the rest of humanity that would have enabled Jesus to rise naturally. . .
First Rebuttal: Part 1

The RDA is a bogus illogical circular assumption. Jesus was not naturally described in the first place, he was described as the offspring of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin without a human father who walked on water, and transfigured.

The RDA is based on Amnesia or some faulty ability to concentrate. It must never be forgotten how Jesus was described in the Gospels.

Please look at Matthew 1.18-20 and Luke 1.34-35 and John 1, you MUST see the pathetic absurdity of the RDA.

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