Gregg

There is no comparing the two procedures. You need to educate yourself.

Space Chef

BUT, since rlogan is from Alaska, you can directly blame Christianity through the Puritans, John Kellogg and all the rest of the nuts for his mutilation. Kellogg and the Puritans thought sex and bodily pleasure evil... they got this from their religion... what was their religion? Puritanism and Kellogg were a large influence on American quakness. Christianity is to blame for the mass mutilations in the US.

I recommend visiting the (highly disturbing) site In Memory of the Mutilated Child. A warning, friends: this site includes graphic pictures of circumcision, nudity, and at least one accidently removed penis and testicles. If you can't handle it (no pun intended, you fucking assholes), don't visit it, k?

The myth of health benefits of circumcision is just that, a myth. They're all bull. They were started (duh duh duh DUH!) once again by the Christians in America.

Wrong again, Magus.

rlogan

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a flame war. This was important in the Bible. I just do not know why. That is what I want to know. I do not see it explained in scripture.

Greg, there are different forms of female circumcision. I am not referring to the most radical kind. Gratuitous insults when someone has come asking questions are not appreciated.

Jesse

Guys, if you want to discuss the medical benefits/risks to circumcision or the effect on sexual response (this would include the issue of how it compares in these respects to 'female circumcision'), please come over to science and skepticism, it's off-topic here. I only moved the thread back to BC&H because rlogan wanted to focus on the religious origins of circumcision.

Toto

Circumcision in this case (and in the NT epistles generally) is undoubtedly a metaphor for the Jewish law, not for sexual purity (the way we might refer to someone as "kosher.") When Paul talks about "the circumcision", he is referring to Jews who are circumcized and follow the other ritual laws, as opposed to gentiles who do not. In the above quote, it sounds like "circumcision without hands" is an attempt to make the uncircumcised gentiles equivalent to the Jews before the Lord. This was a very hot issue in early Christianity - whether Christians had to follow Jewish law.

Anthropologists and psychologists have a lot of explanations for circumcision, including menstruation/vagina envy (I am not making this up). I don't think that dampening sexual pleasure is among them. It was the American health nuts like Kellogg who wanted to stamp out masturbation who started the trend for American gentile boys to be circumcized, but as noted, it wasn't successful.

The above URL says:

Gregg

"You need to educate yourself" does not strike me as an insult. Your point is taken, but you should realize that it IS the radical procedure that Americans (and hardly just Americans) protest. Not to mention the fact that the procedure is regularly performed using primitive, unsanitary, and painful methods and completely against the woman's will. If American men wished it, all circumcisions would end tomorrow (except among Jews, of course), but the women in these cultures have no rights and no choice.

variant 13

I thought that circumcision was done for health reasons (in the past, when it started).

I can't remember where I read it but the gist was:

That circumcision was performed by desert tribes to prevent sand from getting under the foreskin, which would lead to infection.

Female circumcision like what? They all involve cutting of the clitorus, don't they?

Sven

Thus only the male jews did have a covenant with God? Kind of a sexist, your god, isn't he?

Also looks a lot like a story which humans made up; at least I can not think of any reason why a
(perfect etc.) god would chose *this* as a sign of a covenant.

Sven

mecca777

Unless God is circumcised as well, of course.

M. Hoz

Well you can't judge god.
And things were'nt the same back then either...
You must remember,when the Jews came out of
Egypt,everyone else sacrficed their Children\Genitals\Trees,
so you can't compare really.