SkepticBoyLee

In a debate on another site someone used this.

Thi is a hoax correct?? Two internet sites have mentioned that this is a hoax.

If this letter was genuine then there would be no debate about a hostrical JEsus. I had never heard of this before.


Does anyone else have information about this hoax?

Toto

You mean this Letter of Pilate to Tiberius, which even the Catholic Church considers a pious fraud?

(You probably don't mean this obvious piece of modern fiction which describes a fair haired Jesus lecturing to the swarthy masses around him?)

It is one of a multitude of forgeries or apocryphal literature. (You would not call it a forgery or a hoax if it were not intended to deceive, and it is not clear that anyone ever thought this letter was other than fictional.)

More on apocryphal literature.

Obviously, if this letter were provably genuine, we would not be arguing about a historical Jesus. But it's fake.

You might ask yourself why early Christians felt the need to create so much fiction around a character who was supposed to have existed in real history.

Peter Kirby

Information on many modern forgeries concerning Jesus can be found in this book that is now online:

Goodspeed's Strange New Gospels

There are at least three documents attributed to Pilate that are known from antiquity:

1. J. Quasten writes: "The oldest piece of Christian Pilate literature seems to be 'The Report of Pilate to the Emperor Claudius', which is inserted in Greek into the late Acts of Peter and Paul and is given in Latin translation as an appendix of the Evangelium Nicodemi. It is probable that this report is identical with that mentioned by Tertullian. If that is true, it must have been composed before the year 197 A.D., the time of Tertullian's Apologeticum." (Patrology, vol. 1, p. 116) It can be read here;

M. R. James, The Report of Pilate to the Emperor Claudius

2. Eusebius tells us of a pagan Acts of Pilate published in 311 CE:

"Having forged, to be sure, Memoirs of Pilate and Our Saviour, full of every kind of blasphemy against Christ, with the approval of their chief they sent them round to every part of his dominions, with edicts that they should be exhibited openly for everyone to see in every place, both town and country, and that the primary teachers should give them to the children, instead of lessons, for study and committal to memory." (H. E. 9.5.1)

This work is no longer extant.

3. The Gospel of Nicodemus preserves a document known as the Acta Pilati in chapters 1 to 11, with an addition in chapters 12 to 16, while chapters 17 to 27 are called the "Decensus Christi ad Inferos." Quasten writes, "The whole work, which in a later Latin manuscript is called the Evangelium Nicodemi, must have been composed at the beginning of the fifth century, but it seems to be more or less a compilation of older material." (Patrology, vol. 1, p. 116)

Translations of this can be found here:

ECW Acts of Pilate

The statements by Justin Martyr may have been motivated simply by the assumption that such records existed, because the executions of individuals were routinely reported by Roman governors (although they would not have been preserved as long as would be necessary for apologists to obtain them). Thus, something was created to satisfy the curiosity of the pious (or in the case of Maximin's Acts, to discredit the ascendent sect).

best,
Peter Kirby

Doctor X

Toto et Cephas:

Oh ye of little faith. . .

. . . next you will try to convince us that the Holy Chamber Pot that held the remains of the Bless'd Bro of JayZUZ is a fake. . . .

--J.D.

SLD

An interesting note about those letters - they have a general anti-semitic tone to them, blaming the jews and absolving the Romans of any wrongdoing in Jesus's death. I looked through the main website of the link posted above, and sure enough found several articles that were rather blatantly anti-semitic.

Once again, the absurdity of Christianity is used as an excuse for anti-semitism.

SLD

SkepticBoyLee

Who wrote these forgeries?? Any info on who wrote the Pilate forgeries guys??

Toto

Forgers tend not to sign their work. The forger could have been an anonymous believer just trying to help out.

Who is asserting that these forgeries have any value?

Doctor X

Forgeries . . . forgeries . . . why do we have them?

$$:

Is the obvious answer for many--including the Holy Chamber Pot. Thus, we have enough relics to bury museums. Someone once joked that if you put together all of the pieces of the "one true Cross" you can rebuild the Ark.

Themes:

Beyond money, some have a point to make. Writers were less interested in "preserving history" than presenting an idea. Looking at the OT Patriarch texts, one sees a complex set of political stories "explaining" an ideal situation--We, Israel . . . They, Edom--such that even the names have "meaning."

So, it is understandable for writers to "tailor" things to suit their needs. Actually this is a broad category:

Curiosity:

So . . . where did Junior grow up? Did he have acne? Writers tried to "fill in" the details.

Theologic:

Mk is soooo depressing . . . no resurrection . . . hey, let us write one! What? Paul is dated . . . let us write a new letter. This does not have to be "dishonest" in the sense the forger(s) are trying to harm anyone--they just want a basis to their beliefs.

Indeed, in some threads regarding the "Passion"--did it happen, who did it, did they sell tickets--I think one can make the argument that the Synoptics "shift" the moral blame towards the Jews rather than the Romans--good political move after 70 CE!

The one for this topic indicates a more extreme case . . . which bring us to:

Malevolence:

. . . with one of the best examples The Protocals of the Elders of Zion. This infamous forgery still circles the globe and serves as a "basis" for anti-semitism. It does not matter whether not the Romanovs, Hitler, Henry Ford, et cetera believe it--they need "da masses" to believe it.

It is similar to stating, now, that the Declaration of Independence is a "Christian Document." The masses eat it up because they do not bother to read it or read about Jefferson!

Of course . . . there are many other reasons. . . .

Value:

I predicted that ten years from now, we will find people citing the Ossary as "proof"--much like scum hold up The Protocals. It Does Not Matter whether or not someone "debunks" this stuff; users are interested in people who want to believe.

So . . . wander over to the Evolution threads and rehash the same arguments against it. Heck, you have a poster here who refuse to read the evidence against astronomy!

People want their beliefs to be based on something solid. Many forgeries represent this, whether it be religious or a promise of vast riches from a Nigerian prince.

Finally, [ZZZZzzzzZZZZZZzzZZZ--Ed.] there is the infamous story of the forger of Mormon documents--I think there is a book on it. Long . . . long story short, the forger was smart enough to right controversial letters that scared the Mormon Church enough they wanted to buy and suppress them! Ingenious! How can someone expose a forgery if no one is allowed to study it?! He just got greedy!

--J.D.

[We will not let him correct the "astronomy" mistake since it is just too ironic.--Ed.]

Calzaer

Evidence against astronomy? Umm... do you mean *astrology*?

Doctor X

Look! Text SPEAKS TO ME . . . and to ME it REALLY says Astronomy. . . .

Picks up ball and runs away screaming "I Know you Are but What am I?"

--J.D.