Richbee

The Easter season is nearly here, and what would Spring be without a really rousing, red hot debate about the resurrection of Jesus Christ with some fundamentalist "skeptics'?

The apostle Paul once asked King Agrippa, “Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?” - Acts 26:8

Now, consider, the New Testament critic, D.H. van Daalen, who points out,

“It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions.”

In summary, the general consensus of modern scholarship accepts the following ten details as established historical facts:

1. Jesus died by crucifixion 2,000 years ago.

2. Jesus was then placed in a tomb.

3. A few days later, the tomb was found empty.

4. Soon after, the Apostles began testifying that Jesus had risen from the dead.

5. The Apostles really believed they had seen Jesus alive again.

6. Even opponents and skeptics of Christianity at the time claimed to have seen Jesus alive again, and their lives were transformed as a consequence.

7. Almost all of the Apostles eventually died for their testimony that they had seen the resurrected Jesus.

8. In the face of brutal persecution, the movement of Christianity grew beyond all reasonable expectation.

9. The belief that Jesus was physically raised from the dead was central and foundational to Christianity from the very beginning.

10. The corpse of Jesus has never been produced.

Resurrection Reasoning refutes Circular Bias from Unbelief a priori! - Click Here

Judah Etinger: Throughout the early decades of Christianity, it seems the physical vacancy of the tomb was not in doubt by anyone.

Toto

Utter nonsense.

This is William Lane Craig's approach, and it sweeps over whether there in fact is a general consensus of modern scholarship as to these "Facts." I do not think that there is a general consensus among historians. Please provide some evidence of this consensus.

Lots of people did, probably some named Jesus

Crossan disputes this. The expectation is that the body of someone crucified would be thrown to the dogs.

There is no evidence of this tomb outside the gospels, written several generations after the alleged events.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. We have no evidence of such apostles in the first century outside of Christian theological documents.

Absolutely no evidence of this.

What evidence is there of an opponent or skeptic of Christianity seeing Jesus alive again? Are you claiming that Paul saw Jesus alive?

This is not true, or there is no evidence to support it. The deaths of the apostles are only known from Christian legend. The Romans did not put people to death for testimony about the resurrected Jesus, but for refusing to sacrifice to the Roman gods.

It is not true that the persecution of Christianity was uniformly brutal, or that Christianity grew at an unusual rate for a new religion. Please see Rodney Stark's The Birth of Christianity.

Do you have any evidence of this?

We can agree on that.

If you want the full refutation of all of the tired arguments, check out The Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond the Grave

Autonemesis

Do you know where to find one?

ziffel

The empty tomb is rather easy to explain when you consider that Jesus likely never existed in the first place.

"the general consensus of modern scholarship accepts the following ten details as established historical facts"

Heh. Right.

As Toto pointed out, Christianity actually started out extremely slowly. In Stark's book that he mentioned, he points out that modern-day Mormonism actually has had a faster or at least equal growth rate to Christianity.

You have the pagans to thank for your Jesus story. You have the Roman Catholic councils to thank for your New Testament (after hundreds of years of deliberations) and you have Rome to thank for it's growth. Well, Rome and normal human gullibility.

Spanky

WARNING

This is a sample of Richbee's posting abilities. . .



ROFLMAO!!

YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REFUTED!!!

HA HA!!

You may resume

ziffel

At first, I didn't know what you were talking about, but then I read a few of his posts, and now I get it. Apparently, shouting and excessive exclamation points equals good sound logic in his mind.

FatherMithras

Can religious people please stop talking shit about "fundamentalist" atheist/skeptics/whatever? We're not "fundamentalist" anythings. We're skeptics, just like almost everyone is. The only difference is we don't make exceptions for shit we've been brought up to believe/have an emotional attachment to, because we're actually honest with out skepticism.

Anyhow, the whole OP is a joke. There isn't a redhot debate. There's a "no coming back to life" truth, and a counter assertion with no evidence. The fact you scream he really came back to life as loud as you can doesn't make it a debate, it makes it you ignoring facts.

EssEff

No such thing. "Fundamentalists" are religionists by definition and completely a-skeptical by indoctrination.

hallq

>10 Facts about the resurrection skeptics cannot disprove"

One fact about me you cannot disprove. I can fly:

Sure the photo could be fake - but can you prove it?

>the general consensus of modern scholarship accepts the following ten details as established historical facts

The general consensus of modern scholarship is also that none of the gospels are eyewitness testimony. That leaves us with three scattered sentences from Paul giving eyewitness testimony to the resurrection. There's better evidence that the theater in my hometown is haunted.

>The corpse of Jesus has never been produced

The living body of Jesus has never been produced. If you were told by the members of a New Age cult that their leader has risen bodily from the dead, and you ask to meet him, but they say "oh, he ascended into heaven" - wouldn't you be suspicious?

Ted Hoffman

Um, that is called jumping. It is different from flying.