Johnny Skeptic

If Lee Merrill's challenge to skeptics and Muslims actually had any merit, then surely Christians who have a lot of media exposure would be making the same challenge, including President George Bush, but guess what folks, it ain't happenin'. If the challenge became widespread on the world media, it would most assuredly get the Iraqi's attention, and they would immediately have a good number of Arabs pitch their tents in Babylon, and have some shepherds graze their flocks there. Even if they wanted to rebuild Babylon, they are in the middle of a war, and the endeavor would be quite expensive and would take years to accomplish. If any part of the prophecy is discredited, then all of it would be discredited. Lee says that some people would be more convinced if Babylon were to be rebuilt, but some people, possibly most people, wouldn't. If I predicted that no one would ever be able to accomplish any of four different tasks, and if some of the tasks were more difficult to accomplish than some of the other tasks, accomplishing the easiest task would prove that the person who made the prediction had made a mistake just as much as if the most difficult of the tasks had been accomplished. I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 35 years. During that time I never heard of the Babylon prophecy. The first that I had ever heard of it was when Lee brought it up. My housekeeper used to be a Christian missionary. She has studied the Bible extensively for decades. When I mentioned Lee's arguments about the prophecy, first of all she didn't know anything at all about it. Second of all, when I told her about Lee's challenge, he thought that is was ridiculous. Surely so would President Bush and his entire cabinet. I have checked out the Babylon prophecy in about six Bible commentaries, and none of them come even close to stating what Lee has said about the prophecy. One of Lee's biggest problems is that he is a fan of the widely discredited Josh McDowell, who has even been attacked by fundamentalist Chritians on occasion, including James Holding. Surely Lee knew about my thread that was titled 'It is time to put Daniel and Josh McDowell in their proper places.' I showed that McDowell's OWN SOURCES discredited him, and incredibly in the very books that he mentioned. The article that I referenced is at http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...tz/critic.html.

lee_merrill

Where can I buy a ticket? I would like to have a tour!

Well, how do you know if my survey will be effective, if I take one?

I insist on a survey showing my survey will have an impact...

Blessings,
Lee

Boro Nut

Luckilly for you they're on special offer all this week at your local recruiting office. If they take a shine to you they may even offer to pay YOU to go, and put you up in a palace! How good is that!!! Surely even you can't turn that chance of a lifetime down.

I bet you do though.

Boro Nut

Boro Nut

Lee, unlikely as it may seem, having read your arguments in this thread, I'm actually slowly coming round to the belief that prophecy may actually be a valid concept after all. I find it almost impossible to accept that the person who first coined the phrase 'tosser' didn't have you specifically in mind.

Boro Nut

Johnny Skeptic

Heeeere's Johnny, back for some more fun. This is much better than comedy on television.

You can easily contact the U.S. State Department without conducting a poll, but everyone knows you won't do it. You are well aware that the U.S. State Department would tell you that the U.S. WOULD NOT adopt a friendly foreign policy towards Muslims if Babylon were to be rebuilt. You issued a challenge to the Iraqis, which incredibly you have never delivered to them.

Could you find even one U.S. Congressman who would give up Christianity if Babylon were to be rebuilt. Well of course you couldn't. I'll tell you what. I will pay you $200 for every U.S. congressman who you can find who will give up Christianity if Babylon were to be rebuilt if you will pay me $50 for every U.S. congressman who I can find who won't. In addition, if you will agree to conduct a random poll of ten of the members OF YOUR OWN CHURCH, my same offer stands. Regardless of polls, as the challengee it is up to you to provide credible evidence to the challengees, the Iraqis, that if Babylon were to be rebuilt, they would receive substantial benefits. You can't do that and you know it. Is it your position that as challengee it is not incumbent upon you to deliver your challenge to the challengee and attempt to convince the challengee to accept your challenge? What evidence do you have to present to the Iraqis that you believe might be sufficient to convince them to attempt to rebuild Babylon?

As I have told you before, regarding the Babylon prophecy there is not any credible evidence at all that Isaiah was speaking for God and not for himself, and therefore if the Babylon prophecy is discredited some people can credibly state that if the prophecy were to be disproved, it would be Isaiah who would have been disproved, not God. As I have also told you before, since Deuteronomy 13 says that bad people can predict the future too, it is not a question of who can predict the future, but of who has good character. I submit that God is provably bi-polar, provably frequently inconsistent, and probably frequently dangerous. I can back of any of these assertions if you wish. You would never trust another human who acted like God acts, but yet you hold God to a different standard. Why is that?

Why does God have the right to determine what is right and what is wrong? Does might always make right, or just in some cases? What has God ever done for you in tangible ways?

As always, thanks very much for the entertainment. This is great fun.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Will I get to meet the mayor of Babylon? I especially want to see the famous walls.

Not at all! Because Christians believe Isaiah spoke for God, you would disprove this Christian belief.

Certainly not.

Well, he has healed me several times. That's not just mere power, I would say, it's power in use to do good, evidence that he is real, and also cares.

Regards,
Lee

Johnny Skeptic

I am not trying to disprove it. My point is that there is no way to know one way or the other. What Christians believe is irrelevant. What is relevant is why they believe what they believe.

Then when does might make right?

But what if you hadn't gotten healed? If you hadn't gotten healed, would you have given up Christianity? Why do you rule out all other possible causes, and why did God create Hurricane Katrina and send it to New Orleans? Even if God does sometimes heal people, I do not approve of his refusal to ever restore lost arms and legs, or heal people who have severe cases of multiple sclerosis and cerebral palsy. God always limits his healings to less serious physical problems. How do you account for this? You would never trust a human who exhibited inconsistent behavior like God does. If you knew a human who had the ability to prevent natural disasters from going ashore and refused to do so, and refused to tell you why he wouldn't, you would not like him, and yet for some reason you tolerate such behavior from God. Why is that? Possibly because you believe that he promised you a comfortable eternal life? There is not any credible evidence that God has ever promised Christians a comfortable eternal life. You only have the Bible writer's word for that. That is the problem when God always speaks through human proxies who can be misunderstood, misinterpreted, and revised by later writers. Since God's behavior in currently inconsistent, why would lhe ever want to change his ways and become consistent. Today, good things and bad things are frequently not distributed to those who are in greatest need. That is not right.

Do you plan to deliver your challenge to the Iraqis sometime during this century? If so, how do you plan to try to convince them that it would be in their best interest to rebuild Babylon, or to have Arabs pitch their tents in Babylon? I assure you that accomplishing the latter would be quite quick, easy, and inexpensive.

If you could convince the Iraqis to attempt to have Arabs pitch their tents in Babylon, and the world media were present to watch the attempt, and if the attempt failed, then that would be reasonable proof to lots of people that the Bible is true, but that would eliminate faith as being an important part of belief in Christianity. God has always gone out of his way to make sure that he shows his big toe, but nothing more. He could have told Ezekiel about Alexander, but he didn't because he didn't want to eliminate faith as the major component of belief. Apologetics is faith in disguise.

John A. Broussard

You must have a special pipe line to have god express so much concern for your headaches.

Think of all those poor church goers who were swept away by the Katrina Hurricane. Even some of the churches went too.

And think of all those poor veterans praying to have their legs and arms restored, while you have heard of god making fingers grow back.

It's really astonishing how god divvies up his favors.

Djugashvillain

Correlation doesn't equal causation. And this is not evidence for anything, except perhaps your gullability.

Johnny Skeptic

That is correct. Lee would have a much better argument if good things and bad things were usually distributed to those who are in greatest need, but such is not the case. While many rich people keep getting richer, many poor people keep getting poorer. People who have lost arms and/or legs never get them back. People who have serious cases of multiple sclerosis and cerebral palsy never get healed. What is Lee's message to those people? His argument is useless regarding those people. It seems that Lee is only concerned with his own personal comfort. Decades ago I read where 10,000 people in the world died of hunger every day, and that half of the people in the world went to bed hungry every day.