Originally Posted by Johnny

It is absurd for anyone to believe that a God exists who wants people to believe that he can predict the future.....

There is no way that God intended for prophecy to strengthen the faith of Old Testament Jews.....

If he did, he would have told Ezekiel about Alexander. ....

There is no way that Ezekiel would have predicted that "a king of kings" (Nebuchadnezzar) would invade Tyre, go down its streets, and tear down its towers, and fail to conquer Tyre. ....

When it became obvious that Nebuchadnezzar was not going to defeat Tyre, that is when someone added the "many nations" part to Ezekiel 26, and falsely claimed in Ezekiel 29 that God would give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre.

There is little doubt that Ezekiel knew of Nebuchadnezzar's plans to invade Tyre in advance.....

The Tyre prophecy is one of the very best examples that proves that the Bible is fraudulent.

Originally Posted by makerowner

Do we really need another thread about this? We've already got one going, plus the one that sugarhitman bailed out of a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Huguenot

Some "skeptics" like Farrell Till, and his side kick - Johnny Skeptic want have it both ways and side ways till Sunday.

They want to disprove the Bible at any cost. (10,000 hours plus and 1,000's posts and counting)

Here we have so many bold assertions and completely devoid of the actual prophecies of Exekiel in Chapters 26, 27, 28 - in full context.

Case Study: (snippets)

Whew, what a load - quoted in part.

Did this skeptic Johnny, or Farrell Till even bother to read the prophecy regarding the Kingdom, and the King of Tyre by Ezekiel?

I seriously doubt this, and just to prove my point, please Johnny post your understting of the prohecy regarding Trye as told in Chapters 26, 27, and 28.

This requires that first you actually read the prophecies! (Please)

In history, we know that was once a King of Tyre and a Kindom riuled by Ittobal II, who even claimed to be God! (No small issue for Ezekiel, and the Jews)

Tyre was no small, obscure village. It was a great Phoenician city and a world capital for over 2,000 years - relatively speaking it was the Kindoms Hong Kong, or Singapore, or NYC - it was to the sea what mighty Babylon was to the land. Yet, in the heyday of its power, the prophet Ezekiel had the audacity to predict for it a violent future and ultimate destruction, and anyone can read the Lament for Tyre and it's people in the full measure of Ezekiel's prophecies!

Originally Posted by Huguenot

Case Study: (snippets)

Whew, what a load - quoted in part.

Tyre was no small, obscure village. It was a great Phoenician city and a world capital for over 2,000 years - relatively speaking it was the Kindoms Hong Kong, or Singapore, or NYC - it was to the sea what mighty Babylon was to the land. Yet, in the heyday of its power, the prophet Ezekiel had the audacity to predict for it a violent future and ultimate destruction, and anyone can read the Lament for Tyre and it's people in the full measure of Ezekiel's prophecies!

Originally Posted by arnoldo

God doesn't care about predicting the future, but changing people's hearts.

Originally Posted by JohnnySkeptic

But you cannot change rational people's hearts by making false and misleading prophecies. God broke his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Egypt. At the very least, the prophecy is misleading, and would have weakened the faith of some Jews. No Jew who lived during Ezekiel's time saw the Tyre prophecy fulfilled, nor did any Jew for several more generations. If anything, that would have weakened the faith of some Jews, especially since Ezekiel called Nebuchadnezzar "a king of kings." In addition, when Alexander finally defeated Tyre, some Jews must have wondered why Ezekiel did not mention Alexander.

If Ezekiel had mentioned Alexander, would that have strengthed the faith of Jews who lived back then, and the faith of Christians who live today?

Consider the following post that Will.L made today at the GRD Forum:

Will.L (Moderator)

"Almost unanimously, the Jewish Rabbis agreed that when the second temple was destroyed and the diaspora began, that it was because of their immorality and thus God felt that they had broken their side of the agreement. Many Jews (ESPECIALLY orthodox Jews living in Israel) do not recognize the Israeli state as they do not believe the covenant has been reclaimed yet (plus, they weren't supposed to go back until the Messiah came)."

What is your opinion of that?

2 Samuel 7:10 says that Jews will have a homeland of their own where no one will bother them. That is not going to happen, especially since the Bible says that there will always be wars and rumors of wars in this life, and that in the last days, nation will rise against nation. No rational person would believe that Jews will have a homeland of their own where no one will bother them. God deceived the Jews. There is no doubt whatsoever that Old Testament Jews believed that one day Jews would have a homeland of their own, IN THIS LIFE, NOT IN THE NEXT LIFE, where no one would bother them.

Christians believe that Micah 5:2 says that a messiah would come who would become ruler of Israel. Jesus did not become ruler of Israel. This means that God needlessly mislead the Jews. If God had inspired Micah to write that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom, and heal people, and be crucified, and rise from the dead after three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become Governor of Palestine, how many Jews do you think would have rejected Jesus?

If God really wanted to change people's hearts, he would not have imposed unnecessarily harsh conditions on people and innocent animals after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. It is not necessary for God to injure and kill people and innocent animals with hurricanes in order to get people to love him.

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Well said, once it was destroyed it never came back. But of course we know Ezekiel wrote the prophecy about Tyre after it was destroyed by Nebby and Alexander the Great.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Anyone who has just a modest amount of common sense knows that a God who wanted people to believe that he can predict the future would not have any trouble at all convincing everyone that he can predict the future.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Anyone who has just a modest amount of common sense knows that a God who wanted people to believe that he can predict the future would not have any trouble at all convincing everyone that he can predict the future.

Originally Posted by arnoldo

How did Ezekiel "know" Nebby's plans to destroy Tyre?

Originally Posted by Will.L

(Moderator)

Almost unanimously, the Jewish Rabbis agreed that when the second temple was destroyed and the diaspora began, that it was because of their immorality and thus God felt that they had broken their side of the agreement. Many Jews (ESPECIALLY orthodox Jews living in Israel) do not recognize the Israeli state as they do not believe the covenant has been reclaimed yet (plus, they weren't supposed to go back until the Messiah came).