iLoveKnowledge

i was on the phone today with a pal, reminiscing about our high school days, and she mentioned this gym teacher who had, in response to her saying "men have it easy," said, "Wanna know why? Go look at the story of Adam and Eve." While she was right to be pissed that he pulled that one out, i decided to test her reaction to a more critical look at this part of Genesis (mostly from memory, it isn't all there):
Angie: I could not BELIEVE he did that. Y'know Adam was pretty dumb to say yes, and Eve was stupid for listening to the serpent....
Me: Well, yeah, he was dumb to accept that fruit. and she was dumb for taking it. But is it really their fault?
A: Huh?
Me: Well, think abotu it. God created them, and they're supposed to be perfect because they're made in his image, right? So were they really at fault?
A: I don't get what you're saying. Try to be more specific.
Me: OK. Look, God created them in his image and that means they should be perfect, right? And yet they ate the fruit.
A: So?
Me: So was it really their fault? htey were created innocent, they couldn't have known what would happen.
A: Doesn't matter. They still should've had some common sense not to....
Me: They were innocent. they had NO idea that evil and temptation coudl exist. To them, Eden was like a paradisal home on Earth.
A couple of minutes of nonsencial arguing later....
A: But why come up with excuses?
Me: they didn't know what woudl happen, and they can hardly be blamed....
A: Friggin' stupid, excuses, excuses! They HAD to make excuses.
Me: Angie, think about it logic...
A: What?
Me: Think about it liek this. When you were a child, and you did something wrong, what was your first NATURAL reaction when your parents found out? Be honest.
A: To lie.
Me: Well, there you go. you can't really say....
A: They weren't children; they were adults.
Me: They were innocent. They weren't created with the sense to know, or realize, that evil can be lurking in Eden. Their minds were like those of children.
A: *about to interrupt*
Me:....And let's be honest, when you don't know, aren't worldly, you make mistakes. they wanted his sympathy, not his anger, so they lied.
A: But still.
me: Well, something went wrong somewhere.

I was trying to get to my main argument, which i think you have already guessed. If God created Adam and Eve, and thus they were suppsoed to be perfect, then whose fault is it really? Sure common sense would tell them Don't disobey God, but then he would have still been at fault; he gave them free will, which meant they would have disobeyed anyway. But dammit, she changed the subject so fast i didn't have time to say anything.

spin

Hands up all you people out there in the audience who have not come up against this wall continually? While you can nail a person's other foor to the floor to stop them running around in circles, you can't do it with their minds.


spin

DramaQ

I've had (some) better luck with this argument:

According to the story, god did NOT endow Adam and Eve with the ability to discern right from wrong. In fact, he FORBADE them that knowledge, which is what they got in "trouble" for: eating the fruit from the tree after he specifically TOLD them not to.

The question is: how can god hold A & E responsible for doing what he considered "wrong" when he denied them the ability to KNOW right from wrong? "Sure I disobeyed you, god. Should I not have done that? How was I to know?"

btw, when I said "(some) better luck with this argument" I mean that instead of getting a flat out "It don't work that way" I get a "I'll have to check with the minister about that." So far no one I've asked has gotten back to me.

Good luck with it.