Freethought & Rationalism Archive

butswana · 11-23-2006, 05:54 AM

I'm wondering if the fundies will be heaping praise on the girl who plays Mary like they were slobbering all over that Jim Cavelero guys knob who played Jesus in that Mel Gibson 'Jesus Chainsaw Massacre' movie.
I wonder if the fact that she is a 16 year old girl who got knocked up by her 19 year old boyfriend will temper their praise of her? I'm pretty sure she is not claiming to still be a virgin.

Malachi151 · 11-23-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butswana

I'm wondering if the fundies will be heaping praise on the girl who plays Mary like they were slobbering all over that Jim Cavelero guys knob who played Jesus in that Mel Gibson 'Jesus Chainsaw Massacre' movie.
I wonder if the fact that she is a 16 year old girl who got knocked up by her 19 year old boyfriend will temper their praise of her? I'm pretty sure she is not claiming to still be a virgin.

Good point, I forgot about that. According to the Catholics Mary would have been 12 years old when she had Jesus, this based on the marriage traditions of that culture at the time.

John Kesler · 11-23-2006, 07:42 AM

The contradiction involving Joseph and Mary's hometown is, in my opinion, the hardest for apologists to explain away, though many have twisted themselves in knots trying. Luke makes it clear that Mary and Joseph are from Nazareth:

Quote:

Luke 1:26-27
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David.

Luke 2:1-4
In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3 All went to their own towns to be registered. 4 Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David.

Luke 2:39
39 When [Joseph and Mary] had finished everything required by the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.

Contrast this with Matthew's narrative, which claims that roughly two years after Jesus' birth Joseph first resided in Nazareth:

Quote:

Matthew 2:22-23
22 But when [Joseph] heard that Archelaus was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And after being warned in a dream, he went away to the district of Galilee. 23 There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazorean."

If Joseph and Mary already lived in Nazareth as Luke indicates, how could Joseph make his home there well after the birth of Jesus?

S.C.Carlson · 11-23-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I was wrong. I thought I remembered Jesus talking to the wise men when they came, but he didn't.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

Still, as the story of Matthew has it, which is the one with the Star, he isn't a newborn and they are in a house, not a "manger".

The "manger" scene is in Luke, sans wise men:

That's right. Most Christmas pageants conflate the two accounts to make something not supported by either text. Scholars (both Christian and non-), are more careful than that.

Stephen

wiccan windwalker · 11-23-2006, 06:28 PM

in many years of forensic trench warfare I have learned that when the other side fixates on non material minutiae, you know your opponents have lost the war.

Malachi151 · 11-23-2006, 06:28 PM

I wonder what the movie will do?

BTW, just to add info about the supposed age of the "virgin Mary":

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Quote:

Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". As we know of no brother of Mary, we must suppose that she was an heiress, and was obliged by the law of Numbers 36:6 to marry a member of her tribe. The Law itself prohibited marriage within certain degrees of relationship, so that the marriage of even an heiress was left more or less to choice.

xaxxat · 11-23-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiccan windwalker

in many years of forensic trench warfare I have learned that when the other side fixates on non material minutiae, you know your opponents have lost the war.

My condolences on your loss...

wiccan windwalker · 11-23-2006, 07:24 PM

oh my dear xaxxxat, I havent lost. The most recent poll puts atheists as the most despised group in the world, even lower than convicted felons.

xaxxat · 11-23-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiccan windwalker

oh my dear xaxxxat, I havent lost. The most recent poll puts atheists as the most despised group in the world, even lower than convicted felons.

As if popularity meant anything to us. Popularity is so... high skewl. Nome sain?

Joan of Bark · 11-24-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiccan windwalker

oh my dear xaxxxat, I havent lost. The most recent poll puts atheists as the most despised group in the world, even lower than convicted felons.

You mean just like Christians before Constantine?

I have many theist friends who know I'm a militant atheist, and I get along just fine with my family (who are almost all believers). My uncle is a baptist minister and he doesn't despise me. Could you cite this poll you mention? It was probably conducted among extremist protestants in the southern U.S.

BTW, the reason we fixate on minutiae sometimes is because of the large minority of Christians who believe in Bible inerrancy. If these idiots would go away, we could stick with the more substantial discussions we have on these boards.

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11-23-2006, 05:54 AM	#11
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	I'm wondering if the fundies will be heaping praise on the girl who plays Mary like they were slobbering all over that Jim Cavelero guys knob who played Jesus in that Mel Gibson 'Jesus Chainsaw Massacre' movie. I wonder if the fact that she is a 16 year old girl who got knocked up by her 19 year old boyfriend will temper their praise of her? I'm pretty sure she is not claiming to still be a virgin.

11-23-2006, 06:28 PM	#15
wiccan windwalker Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oldsmar,Florida Posts: 228	in many years of forensic trench warfare I have learned that when the other side fixates on non material minutiae, you know your opponents have lost the war.

11-23-2006, 07:24 PM	#18
wiccan windwalker Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oldsmar,Florida Posts: 228	oh my dear xaxxxat, I havent lost. The most recent poll puts atheists as the most despised group in the world, even lower than convicted felons.

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