Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 06-14-2006, 04:25 PM

In a Ruined Copper Works, Evidence That Bolsters a Doubted Biblical Tale

Quote:

Exactly when did the nomadic tribes of Edom become an organized society with the might to threaten Israel? Were David and Solomon really kings of a state with growing power in the 10th century B.C.? Had writers of the Bible magnified the stature of the two societies at such an early time in history?

An international team of archaeologists has recorded radiocarbon dates that they say show the tribes of Edom may have indeed come together in a cohesive society as early as the 12th century B.C., certainly by the 10th. The evidence was found in the ruins of a large copper-processing center and fortress at Khirbat en-Nahas, in the lowlands of what was Edom and is now part of Jordan.

. . .

Dr. Levy, an archaeologist at the University of California, San Diego, said the research had yielded not only the first high-precision dates in the region, but also such telling artifacts as scarabs, ceramics, metal arrowheads, hammers, grinding stones and slag heaps. Radiocarbon analysis of charred wood, grain and fruit in several sediment layers revealed two major phases of copper processing, first in the 12th and 11th centuries, later in the 10th and 9th.

. . .

Israel Finkelstein, an archaeologist at Tel Aviv University and a leading proponent of the low-chronology model, has said the new research does "not shed new light on the question of state formation in Edom." He argues that perhaps the copper operations were controlled by chieftains in Beersheba, to the west, and supplied material for urban centers west and north of Edom.

. . .

Piotr Bienkowski of the University of Manchester, England, and Eveline van der Steen of East Carolina University in Greenville, N.C., who have excavated the Edomite highlands, criticized the statistical analysis of the new dating and suggested that the data had been used to support an unjustified interpretation.

An article will be published in the popular Biblical Archeology Review. The findings were previously published in the British journal Antiquity available here (by subscription or pay per view), critiqued here by Bienkowski and van der Steen. A response to the critique is here, by the authors.

Kosh · 06-14-2006, 04:47 PM

Why is it that radio carbon dating is never deemed accurate enough (by Christians) when helping to prove evolution, but is fine when helping to prove the Bible?

S.C.Carlson · 06-14-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosh

Why is it that radio carbon dating is never deemed accurate enough (by Christians) when helping to prove evolution, but is fine when helping to prove the Bible?

Radiocarbon dating has an upper limit somewhere around 60000 years before present. I would hope that it is not being used to "prove evolution."

Stephen

rob117 · 06-15-2006, 06:45 PM

I think Levy and Najjar are making way too big a deal of this site. The site is evidence of early copper production in the region, but there is absolutely no evidence that the site was Edomite. No Edomite pottery has been found there; according to their own article from last year, the pottery found there was of the Midianite and Negebite traditions. Aside from the isolated example of the capital city of Bozrah, which may have arisen in the second half of the ninth century, there is absolutely no evidence for sedentary society in Edom before it became an Assyrian vassal in the 730s BC. The biblical accounts of David fighting the Edomites in II Samuel are generally attributed, based on linguistic and thematic evidence, to the time of David and Solomon (Halpern 2001), and so would count as a contemporary witness, but these narratives do not say anything about the Edomite way of life, and so may simply refer to David fighting the nomadic tribes to the southeast.

Khirbet en-Nahas is probably a local Dead Sea site, originally founded in Iron I by local nomads (Midianites and Amalekites) as an independent copper production city trading with Egypt and the city of Tel Masos in the northern Negev (probably Amalekite). It may have briefly come under Judaean control in the 10th century under David, and again in the 9th under Jehoshaphat. The fact that the site was destroyed around 800 BC, precisely when the real evidence of the beginnning of the Edomite polity emerges, suggests that the Edomites were the ones who destroyed the site, not the ones who built it.

The tradition about Edom having kings before Israel comes from three sources, all of them late- the latter half of Genesis 36, which, although traditionally attributed to the 9th century J source is probably an independent composition of the late 7th century; the account of Edom in Numbers 20, which while also traditionally considered J is probably a later addition added in the late 7th century to the already-combined JE text (see the article on Edom in the Anchor Bible Dictionary); and various Deuteronomistic references in Judges, which date to about the same period.

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06-14-2006, 04:47 PM	#2
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Why is it that radio carbon dating is never deemed accurate enough (by Christians) when helping to prove evolution, but is fine when helping to prove the Bible?

06-15-2006, 06:45 PM	#4
rob117 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York State Posts: 440	I think Levy and Najjar are making way too big a deal of this site. The site is evidence of early copper production in the region, but there is absolutely no evidence that the site was Edomite. No Edomite pottery has been found there; according to their own article from last year, the pottery found there was of the Midianite and Negebite traditions. Aside from the isolated example of the capital city of Bozrah, which may have arisen in the second half of the ninth century, there is absolutely no evidence for sedentary society in Edom before it became an Assyrian vassal in the 730s BC. The biblical accounts of David fighting the Edomites in II Samuel are generally attributed, based on linguistic and thematic evidence, to the time of David and Solomon (Halpern 2001), and so would count as a contemporary witness, but these narratives do not say anything about the Edomite way of life, and so may simply refer to David fighting the nomadic tribes to the southeast. Khirbet en-Nahas is probably a local Dead Sea site, originally founded in Iron I by local nomads (Midianites and Amalekites) as an independent copper production city trading with Egypt and the city of Tel Masos in the northern Negev (probably Amalekite). It may have briefly come under Judaean control in the 10th century under David, and again in the 9th under Jehoshaphat. The fact that the site was destroyed around 800 BC, precisely when the real evidence of the beginnning of the Edomite polity emerges, suggests that the Edomites were the ones who destroyed the site, not the ones who built it. The tradition about Edom having kings before Israel comes from three sources, all of them late- the latter half of Genesis 36, which, although traditionally attributed to the 9th century J source is probably an independent composition of the late 7th century; the account of Edom in Numbers 20, which while also traditionally considered J is probably a later addition added in the late 7th century to the already-combined JE text (see the article on Edom in the Anchor Bible Dictionary); and various Deuteronomistic references in Judges, which date to about the same period.

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