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Old 07-13-2005, 09:49 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Amaleq13
I don't want to turn this into a full-fledged tangent (I think we were doing fine with the "brother" thing because it relates to dating) but I think that is an interesting question. I offer the following only as "food for thought" or as inspiration for a new thread.
so many mysteries, so little time..


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I'm not sure how much that helps. I don't see the Gospels or Acts referring to any James that follows Jesus as his brother. Even the letter attributed to James doesn't make that claim and the letter attributed to Jude has the author describe himself as "brother of James".
Yeah, those don't help my case any. Acts 1:14 mentions the brothers of Jesus, but doesn't name James as one of them. I think Luke, Paul's companion, probably wrote at least part of Acts, but I've never studied it or read much critiquing it.

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Old 07-14-2005, 12:32 AM   #122
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Yeah, those don't help my case any. Acts 1:14 mentions the brothers of Jesus, but doesn't name James as one of them.
And three men by that name are identified as disciples by that name in the preceding verse.

Two verses later, "men and brethren" are addressed. Why the differentiation? It happens again in 2:29 and 37. Is that just a convention of writing for the time?

In Acts 11:1 we have "apostles and brethren" mentioned. In 12:17 we have:

"And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren."
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Old 07-14-2005, 03:11 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Amaleq13
Thank Andrew. I didn't see your post before I posted.

So one brother of many might very well be referred to as "the" brother?

ETA:

I found several examples in the Bible but I also found examples of "a brother" (Genesis 14:13; 1 Chronicles 27:18; 2 Chronicles 36:4; Jude 1:1).

Is the choice of article at all meaningful?
In the Septuagint Genesis 14:13 is literally 'the brother' 1 Chronicles 27:18 is literally 'of the brothers' (plural) 2 Chronicles 36:4 is literally 'his brother'.

Jude 1:1 is literally 'a brother' , I suspect that the definite article is not used either because a/ the author is introducing himself rather than describing a third party or b/ 'brother of James' is secondary to the primary self designation 'servant of Jesus Christ' and continues in the same form, literally 'a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James'. But this is speculation.

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Old 07-14-2005, 07:09 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Amaleq13
And three men by that name are identified as disciples by that name in the preceding verse.

Two verses later, "men and brethren" are addressed. Why the differentiation? It happens again in 2:29 and 37. Is that just a convention of writing for the time?

In Acts 11:1 we have "apostles and brethren" mentioned. In 12:17 we have:

"And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren."
My guess is that "men" is all men being addressed, including non-believers, and that "brethren" is the male believers, which would include apostles, but the apostles--being a special subset were often singled out.

The 1:14 reference to 'his' brothers right after mentioning his Mary the mother of Jesus is most likely referring to biological brothers, but unless we can determine that Luke--Paul's close partner--wrote that, or at least someone very early on wrote it, it doesn't help my case much, I think.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:20 AM   #125
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The 1:14 reference to 'his' brothers right after mentioning his Mary the mother of Jesus is most likely referring to biological brothers, but unless we can determine that Luke--Paul's close partner--wrote that, or at least someone very early on wrote it, it doesn't help my case much, I think.
I agree that the reference is likely literal. Since Acts follows the Gospel stories that is neither surprising nor helpful in establishing it for Paul. I accept that the same author wrote Luke/Acts but I'm not convinced that the "we" passages (the only indication of personal involvement) are sufficient to justify the specific identification of the author.

I'm also less familiar with Acts than the Gospels but I think I need to read it carefully.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:01 AM   #126
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I agree that the reference is likely literal. Since Acts follows the Gospel stories that is neither surprising nor helpful in establishing it for Paul. I accept that the same author wrote Luke/Acts but I'm not convinced that the "we" passages (the only indication of personal involvement) are sufficient to justify the specific identification of the author.

I'm also less familiar with Acts than the Gospels but I think I need to read it carefully.
I agree. I always liked Acts, and maybe I'm just gullible but the historical parts sound pretty realistic to me.
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