Chili

Can't you read? You can't read!Indeed he was. The problem is that he was not our father and will never be ours regardless of how much bowing and scraping we would do. Did your mother not tell you this when she told you about the birds and the bees? Not to baffle you, but your temporal life can only be temporal if your eternal life is not yours or you would be eternal. No mystery at all. Just that there is only one, but there is one for each.Show me yours.He wasn't, except in the myth and of that I am sure because the myth is there. Do you know what a mythology is?

Chili

When Judas hung himself maybe? or did you think that Jews can get to heaven as Jew? Here's a hint for you: there are no temples in the New Jerusalem.

Quote:

[=DarkRed]"because he was grounded to the reality of Genesis"

It does not 'lead' once you arrive there the second time. To come full circle in Genesis only means that you arrive at the place you first started and know it for the first time.The recorded lineage in Matthew takes us from Judah to Joseph and in Luke the inspired lineage takes us from Jesus, "being --so it was supposed--the son of Joseph" right back to God.

Baidarka

Amos um err Chili

Are you a random Jungian word generator with Biblically based vocabulary?

Weltall

The evidence would seem to suggest that is indeed the case.

Chili

So what? If it shakes your faith you must examine it but do not get angry with me . . . for your sake (because I am on top of my argument = not in it).

epepke

Actually, the media image (which, not to put too fine a point on it, is mostly controlled by people whose families have been in the US less than 500 years), is that most Native Americans don't appreciate being called "Indians." So, this respect would be mostly to the (dare I call it White?) media. What people prefer is an empirical question.

When I go to the Southwest, I find that most Indians there prefer "Indian" over "Native American." Furthermore, in New Mexico when I was at a convention, there was a small convention of chiefs sharing a convention hall, and all of their literature and posters said "Indian." This was a completely autonymic use of the term.

When I talk to someone with ancestry over 500 years old in America, I usually don't use either term. I usually ask "What Nation are you?"

Occams_Razor

I haven't figured it out yet. Sockpuppet? Brain damage leading to word salad?

Baidarka

epepke

Thank you for pointing out that the issue is more nuanced then I realized.

Vorkosigan

Moved into GRD, althoough I echo the last poster...

newtype_alpha

I'm really glad you pointed out that thing about the "second messiah," because it demonstrates more clearly than anything else an example of the "bastardization of Jewish belief."

I've talked with a number of Jews on this subject at some length and read some references to it in the Talmud. The Messiah is only supposed to come ONCE, not twice, not three times, just once. This coming is supposed to be decisive, and what he does in the world is permanent, no ifs ands or buts. For Christ to even need a second coming automatically disqualifies him as the Messiah, in fact Jesus all but admits he's not the Messiah since all the things the Jews expected him to do the first time around aren't expected to come to pass until the second coming (as described in Revelations and elsewhere). The idea of the Messiah having to come to Earth multiple times is about as "Jewish" as healing crystals are Native American.