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Old 06-30-2004, 10:09 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Roland
Are the many miracles that Jesus is said to have performed actually just late accretions to the story of this man?

The first extant writings - the epistles of Paul and others - make no mention of them.
The miracles attributed to Jesus are conspicuously absent from the epistles of Paul and the Gospel of Thomas, thought to be two of the earliest NT writings (along with the theoretical Q). Interestingly, the miracle of a virgin birth and the details of a physical resuscitation and Resurrection (Paul seems to speak of Jesus as a continuing spiritual manifestation) are also absent from these texts.

Mark, accepted to be the earliest of the four Gospels and a source for both Matthew and Luke, doesn't relate a miraculous birth story either, but it does have accounts of Jesus healing the sick, restoring sight to the blind, casting out demons and having power over the forces of nature. Still, the supernatural details of the Resurrection are minimal with the raised Jesus never appearing in Mark's account. The later the source, the more Jesus' humanity faded in favor of divinity until, in the Gospel of John, Jesus actually claims the name "I Am", revealed as the name of God in Exodus.

In short, it seems the earliest witnesses to Jesus portray Him as an ordinary human through whom God can be seen and experienced. Later accounts of Jesus as a miracle-worker and an incarnation of God, who was born of a virgin and was physically resurrected after His crucifixion, seem to add a theistic interpretation to Jesus that appears to be not original but legendary.
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Old 06-30-2004, 10:10 AM   #12
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Old 06-30-2004, 05:48 PM   #13
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I suppose one could put forward the "ten thousand" wonderful things the Testimonium Flavium offered about Jesus as some kind of evidence of miracle-working.

The only one worth mentioning specifically was appearing after three days.

That's ten "wonderful things" per day for three years.

Odd, that such performance escaped notice of contemporary writers.
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by rlogan
I suppose one could put forward the "ten thousand" wonderful things the Testimonium Flavium offered about Jesus as some kind of evidence of miracle-working.

The only one worth mentioning specifically was appearing after three days.

That's ten "wonderful things" per day for three years.

Odd, that such performance escaped notice of contemporary writers.
Considering the majority of the society that witnessed these events were illiterate, what do you expect - enough written accounts to fill the Library of Congress ?
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Old 07-01-2004, 12:47 AM   #15
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Considering the majority of the society that witnessed these events were illiterate, what do you expect - enough written accounts to fill the Library of Congress ?
Nice straw man, Magus. We are only asking for some accounts. Or do you want to claim that the "majority" equals 99.99999999%?
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:16 AM   #16
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'... through whom God can be seen and experienced..'

What a wonderful phrase. Thanks ,Faith. I've alwaysseen Jesus in this way, but you have put it so succinctly. That is my thought for today.
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Old 07-01-2004, 09:25 AM   #17
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'... through whom God can be seen and experienced..'

What a wonderful phrase. Thanks ,Faith. I've alwaysseen Jesus in this way, but you have put it so succinctly. That is my thought for today.
You are very welcome.
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