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Old 06-05-2006, 09:43 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by one allegiance
Yeah I know that ..if you read further i say something about it.



sure. King herod. Pontiuos Pilate. The Roman satirist Lucian. Tacitus a Roman historian. Nazareth decree found in 1878, issued by Emporor Claudius. Lysanius.

I'm sure I can think of more...I gotta go though.
Unfortunately, none of this is extra-Biblical evidence for the existence of Christ. None of it.

Do you actually know what the word 'evidence' means in this context? Let me give you examples:

a first century document written by a non-Jew mentioning Christ and describing his activities

stela, inscriptions, engravings, etc. of the period describing Christ and his activities.

etc.

It's called evidence. You haven't given any. You haven't even given an argument.

Do try.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:06 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder
I'll just pick out one example here - the Author of Luke does not claim to heve been an eyewitness of anything:

Luke (NIV)

1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

None of the other Gospels were written by eyewitnesses. either. The earliest (Mark) was not written until after 70CE.

Norm

What do you do when you go to court to testify against somebody? You write down the events so the prosecuter can move against who you are bearing witness against.

One of the principles in the bible is not bearing false witness, hatred of liars etc.

The bible is a testament to God and Jesus, sure it takes faith. But I believe they are not bearing false witness and speaking the truth.

For you to be a skeptic that is fine. To use your free will to believe in magical atoms and living primordial soup, that's great.

These men in the bible were living and oral tradition was passed down. I think if God can put stars in space larger than the orbit of Pluto, He can handle inspiring men to write a book as a witness, or a testament to His will for mankind. It is up to you to accept it, or reject it by drawing up a long drawn out process for the origins of humanity with little or no evidence to support your theory and preach it by faith as fact.

Here is some archaeological evidence of Jericho.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/jericho.html
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:10 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Patriarch Verlch
What do you do when you go to court to testify against somebody? You write down the events so the prosecuter can move against who you are bearing witness against.

One of the principles in the bible is not bearing false witness, hatred of liars etc.

The bible is a testament to God and Jesus, sure it takes faith. But I believe they are not bearing false witness and speaking the truth.

For you to be a skeptic that is fine. To use your free will to believe in magical atoms and living primordial soup, that's great.

These men in the bible were living and oral tradition was passed down. I think if God can put starts in space larger than the orbit of Pluto, He can handle inspiring men to write a book as a witness, or a testament to His will for mankind. It is up to you to accept it, or reject it by drawing up a long drawn out process for the origins of humanity with little or no evidence to support your theory and preach it by faith as fact.
You claimed (indeed, your entire thread is titled) extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus.

You have presented absolutely no such evidence.

Are you planning to? :devil3:
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:13 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
As a matter of fact, they are not. Those authorship traditions were ascribed to anonymous works in the 2nd century. They weren't actually written by "Matthew, Mark, Luke and John." Nothing in the New Testament was written by a disciple. There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus.

Your evidence for this is what? What is your evidence that Moses existed at all?
It is common knowledge that man descended from one common ancestor or woman, that would be Noahs wife, or Lucy to you.

I'll place my faith in the bible and not the whims of man, thanks. From what I can tell I don't see sound science in evolution.

Peter wrote books of the bible.

Now I haven't heard much more than a peep about how the old testament and the dead sea scrolls.

For such a fraud how did it get copied by hand for 2000 years, without the original copies left in the dead sea? How in Heavens name were they the same bible? When compared with the modern bible the dead sea scrolls found in 1948 were perfect.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a023.html

Sounds like a lot of work for a fraud. Again I'll place my faith in the sound doctrine of the bible. It has already shown itself accurate for archeology, you all should as well.

How many times did men try and burn the bible out of existence? Many times.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:15 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by aa5874
Matthew, Mark, luke and John also contradicted each other.

So does your theory of genetic mutations.

When you see an accident with four other men, are the stories all the same? Perfectly, the moral of the story is that Christ came and died for our sins and a Testamony was left behind as a witness, bearing witness to the facts in writing, you can accept or reject them, that is fine. Free will is a wonderful thing!!!
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:23 AM   #166
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Pat this is nothing but a bunch of non-sequesters.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:24 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Patriarch Verlch
So does your theory of genetic mutations.

When you see an accident with four other men, are the stories all the same? Perfectly, the moral of the story is that Christ came and died for our sins and a Testamony was left behind as a witness, bearing witness to the facts in writing, you can accept or reject them, that is fine. Free will is a wonderful thing!!!
we heard something like this in psychology. 5 people can see an accident, and their accounts can all be the same...regardless of what really happened. social desirability bias plays into it for a part. one person tells his story, and you begin to second guess yourself...you want to match his...you start rethinking details and going "hmm..maybe his head really DID go through the windsheild at 50 mph...i might have just missed it..i only saw it bump the windsheild..."
also, there could be loaded words on the part of the questioner. instead of saying "how fast do you reckon he was going?", he could ask "so when he recklessly carrened and swerved around the corner, how fast did you think he was going?"
those examples don't relate to the gospel argument, i know, but just giving the first argument off the top of my head for why many people all say the same thing. im sure there are better ones, and im sure others on this forum will point them out
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:34 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
Was Jesus born during the reign of Herod the Great or during the Census of Quirinius?

Who paid for the potter's field?

What were Jesus' last words on the cross?

How many of each animal did Noah take on the ark?

Who killed Goliath?

How long was Jesus in the tomb?
Navy men, and sea captains have told other guys that the way the Ark was built was the most sea worthy vessel they have ever seen.

The only way for water to enter the ship was through the roof, it would actually have to yawn how many degrees to allow water to enter? 80 degrees or more. With all the weight in the bottom that was one sea worthy vessel. 300 cubits.

There have been findings of wood on Mt. Ararat.
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:35 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Patriarch Verlch
Navy men, and sea captains have told other guys that the way the Ark was built was the most sea worthy vessel they have ever seen.

The only way for water to enter the ship was through the roof, it would actually have to yawn how many degrees to allow water to enter? 80 degrees or more. With all the weight in the bottom that was one sea worthy vessel. 300 cubits.

There have been findings of wood on Mt. Ararat.

can you confirm this? links to studies and digs, please
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Old 06-05-2006, 10:43 AM   #170
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Navy men, and sea captains have told other guys that the way the Ark was built was the most sea worthy vessel they have ever seen.
That is bullshit pure and simple. You cannot build a wooden vessel to the specs given in the bible without it falling to pieces under it’s own weight. Not only would it not be sea worthy it would have collapsed on the blocks as it was being built

Quote:
The only way for water to enter the ship was through the roof, it would actually have to yawn how many degrees to allow water to enter? 80 degrees or more. With all the weight in the bottom that was one sea worthy vessel. 300 cubits.
With all the weight on the bottom, the bottom would be crushed

Quote:
There have been findings of wood on Mt. Ararat.
Grow up…they found wood…you’ll believe anything you are told, won’t you?
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