Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-22-2004, 03:24 PM

Gnostic Bible, published by Shambala, reviewed (not completely favorably) here:

"The Gnostic Bible," edited by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Meyer

Quote:

. . .Now biblical scholar Marvin Meyer and acclaimed poet and translator Willis Barnstone have published a huge collection of Gnostic sacred writings. These include not just the famous Jewish and Christian heresies from before the third century A.D. that are usually indicated by the G-word, but also medieval Manichaean, Cathar, Persian, and even Islamic and Chinese heresies that stem, in one way or another, from that original Middle Eastern manic Gnostic spark.

. . .

Willis Barnstone, among numerous other virtues that I haven't cited, has written an appealing epilogue addressing one of the most lovable things about the Gnostics, the chutzpah with which they deconstructed the religions they were born into, turning them on their heads. He suggests that this impulse stems from the horror in most Jews' and Christians' lives late in the 1st century A.D., with the Roman crushing of the Jewish rebellion in Jerusalem, the destruction of the Second Temple, and the torture and murder of thousands of Jews and Christians (who were also, at that time, it must be mentioned, Jewish).

Barnstone does not, however, address the most fascinating thing about the relationship between the Gnostics and horror. Abuse, rape, torture and other prerogatives of evil authority play a central role in Gnostic thought, a role they do not have in any other religion I can think of. The central question for most Gnostic believers was, how shall I deal with all the evil things that may be done to me (or that have been done to me) in this society where violent power rules? . . .

Also reviewed here

Peter Kirby · 01-22-2004, 04:07 PM

I browsed through this one at the local bookstore. It turns out that the translations of the NHL Gnostic writings are borrowed from Robinson's well-known The Nag Hammadi Library in English. I would have purchased the new book if it made a fresh translation (as I'd like to be able to compare versions).

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto · 01-22-2004, 04:49 PM

But if you didn't already own The Nag Hammadi Library in English, do you think this book would be a better buy, as it appears?

Peter Kirby · 01-22-2004, 05:08 PM

Only if you are interested in stuff more recent than the 4th century CE (Mandaean, Chinese, Cathar, etc.).

best,
Peter Kirby

Doctor X · 01-22-2004, 05:21 PM

Is there really a connection between gnosticism and these later branches?

--J.D.

Agnostic Theist · 05-20-2004, 03:26 PM

I think the apparent connection stems from a misunderstanding of gnosticism, as it was swallowed by eastern mythicism. Now (at www.gnosis.com, for instance) there are people who would have us believe gnosticism is New Age malarkey.

Are there any atheists or agnostics here who find gnosticism to be more/less credible than Orthadox christianity (Bible and stuff)?

Magdlyn · 05-20-2004, 04:23 PM

What do you mean by credible? Historically accurate, or mythologically/spiritually/psychologically sound?

Gnostic understanding is inner/esoteric meaning. Orthodox Xtians deny inner mysteries exist and only focus upon the outer, exoteric (often literalist) shell of the myth.

beastmaster · 05-20-2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic Beast

Are there any atheists or agnostics here who find gnosticism to be more/less credible than Orthadox christianity (Bible and stuff)?

Gnosticism has the virtue of coherency and internal consistency, which ortho Xnty lacks. But I don't think it is any more "credible," given that no evidence of a human soul or any god(s) exists.

Agnostic Theist · 05-21-2004, 04:47 AM

Well on thatr level, yes. But isn't gnosticism supposed to be taken metaphorically? Like, if you want to know the truth you HAVE TO demythologise the stories?

Contrast with Corthianity (Orthodox Christianity) 'Hey, this doesn't fit the evidence. Maybe if we completely change it all and say we're demythologising it?'!

FordMadoxBrown · 05-21-2004, 06:49 AM

Thanks for the information. Despite the criticisms made, this still sounds an interesting book. there are many pseudepigraphia and apocryphal Christian writings which are difficult to obtain today in English translations. To get an unbiased view of the Bible I think it's important to read as many as one can.

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01-22-2004, 04:07 PM	#2
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	I browsed through this one at the local bookstore. It turns out that the translations of the NHL Gnostic writings are borrowed from Robinson's well-known The Nag Hammadi Library in English. I would have purchased the new book if it made a fresh translation (as I'd like to be able to compare versions). best, Peter Kirby

01-22-2004, 04:49 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	But if you didn't already own The Nag Hammadi Library in English, do you think this book would be a better buy, as it appears?

01-22-2004, 05:08 PM	#4
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Only if you are interested in stuff more recent than the 4th century CE (Mandaean, Chinese, Cathar, etc.). best, Peter Kirby

01-22-2004, 05:21 PM	#5
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Is there really a connection between gnosticism and these later branches? --J.D.

05-20-2004, 03:26 PM	#6
Agnostic Theist Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 4,822	I think the apparent connection stems from a misunderstanding of gnosticism, as it was swallowed by eastern mythicism. Now (at www.gnosis.com, for instance) there are people who would have us believe gnosticism is New Age malarkey. Are there any atheists or agnostics here who find gnosticism to be more/less credible than Orthadox christianity (Bible and stuff)?

05-20-2004, 04:23 PM	#7
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	What do you mean by credible? Historically accurate, or mythologically/spiritually/psychologically sound? Gnostic understanding is inner/esoteric meaning. Orthodox Xtians deny inner mysteries exist and only focus upon the outer, exoteric (often literalist) shell of the myth.

05-21-2004, 04:47 AM	#9
Agnostic Theist Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 4,822	Well on thatr level, yes. But isn't gnosticism supposed to be taken metaphorically? Like, if you want to know the truth you HAVE TO demythologise the stories? Contrast with Corthianity (Orthodox Christianity) 'Hey, this doesn't fit the evidence. Maybe if we completely change it all and say we're demythologising it?'!

05-21-2004, 06:49 AM	#10
FordMadoxBrown Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Crewe, England Posts: 51	Thanks for the information. Despite the criticisms made, this still sounds an interesting book. there are many pseudepigraphia and apocryphal Christian writings which are difficult to obtain today in English translations. To get an unbiased view of the Bible I think it's important to read as many as one can.

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