Koyaanisqatsi

Well, I've only myself to blame. As the saying goes, I knew you were a snake when I picked you up .

No, you did not, but even if you did, it would still be incoherent unless the entire mythology was fabricated out of events that did not actually happen in real life (other than a popular Rabbi beeing crucified by the Romans for sedition against Rome).

Jesus broke no law; neither a literal one, nor a figurative one by claiming to be (if he ever did) a son of Yahweh. Only a Roman who is not familiar with Judaism could make the mistake that claiming to be a son of God would mean anything; it certainly would not mean anything to Jews.

No, I'm saying that if there were any real world event, it would have most likely been that Jesus was crucified by the Romans for committing a real-life crime against Roman citizens (such as either murder or terrorist acts of sedition; the two most prominent reasons for the use of crucifixion as a death penalty at that time).

If you want to argue it wasn't a real-world event, fine by me, because then our discussion is over and we both call it what it was; fiction.

Real life.

Metaphor.

Metaphorically or in real life?

You can't have both. Either he was crucified in real life for real actions, or it's all metaphorical fiction, in which case we're discussing the Odyssey.

:huh:

Choose. If you say it's both, we're done. There can only be the real world events that have no supernatural fictional fantasy bullshit, or there can be the real world events that have supernatural fictional fantasy bullshit made up around those events.

IOW, a guy was crucified by the Romans for breaking Roman law. Real world event.

A guy was crucified by the Romans for breaking Roman law, whose followers then created an entire fictional, fantastical mythology around that has no basis in reality beyond three facts (man, crucified, Roman criminal).

So let me know if you want to discuss the plausible real-world events, or the fiction that was concocted around the real-world events. because right now you're attempting to do both and that's incoherent.

Odd that the children so often must kill their parents to consider themselves free. Yes, that was metaphorical, and yet, disturbingly based in reality, so maybe I'm being too hasty?

Without Judaism, you don't have Christianity, so kill your fathers at your own peril.

IOW, your fiction.

We don't. Only literary figures and literary conceits "need" this for plot development purposes only.

And while it may be fun for some to talk about how the real Mozart wasn't killed by the real Salieri, what purpose does it serve to talk about how the real Mozart was metaphorically killed by the fictional Salieri, when no such thing (a) happend, or (b) is possible?

Don't bother if it's to claim that "Judas" is metaphorical for "Judaism" or "the Jews" or the like, because I'm just not interested.

I agree with you that it's all fiction and designed to be anti-Judaic (i.e., to undermine Judaism, not necessarily anti-Semitic), but if you wish to somehow morph the metaphor with the reality by ignoring the reality in favor of the metaphor, then you're talking crazy talk .

Chili

Here it is again: Jn. 19:7 reads: '"We have our own law" the Jews responded "and according to that law he must die because he made himself God's son."' I never said he did. Jesus the man was without sin but the cross he carried were the sins of his world from before he became son of man/God as the firstborn son of Joseph.

It did according to Jn.19:7 which was the basis for his conviction. It was allegory and not fiction. The underlying story is real and deserves to be told because it contains the more or less secret passage to our ultimate destiny, and, the reason why it must be allegorical is because our very own faculty of reason is the villain that must be placed subservient to our intuition.

Metaphor. Correct Metaphor. I don't know the Odyssey to comment but it is rather difficult to crucify an ego in the literal sense of the word, yet it must be done before we can leave the Cave and not be dazzled by the light we see there. All metaphor unless it tells us different as in Jn.6:55 "my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." See the words "real" here?That may be so but here it was used as a metaphor used to describe this event. I want nothing to do with history or historic events even if the events happened in history. In this case people and events that may be known from history were used to describe this event.

Hardy did the same thing in this poem called the "Convergence of the Twain" wherein the last line "jars two hemispheres."
http://www.melodylane.net/ianwhitcomb/twainpoem.htmlAll metaphor. Christianity is a heresy of Catholicism and Catholicism is the church that Jesus built upon the keen insight of Peter and that is precisely why we do not have to kill anyone. But I do not agree that it is anti Judaic. The NT was written to show the way that Judaism can be improved and this would be why Justus instead of Matthias (the vision of Matthew) was chosen to replace Judas.

Koyaanisqatsi

I'll try one last time; what is the point of interpreting what is already mythological to begin with in metaphorical terms? As with the Odyssey, you can do that to all works of fiction. So what?

The end result can only be your subjective interpretation of what a group of anonymous human authors wrote, for if their stories are metaphors, then so too must be their claims that what they wrote was "inspired."

In short, all this ultimately does is give you insight into the various author's writing styles and mindset at the time of writing and the overrall cult dogma that was formed out of those various author's writing styles and nothing else.

Why not just interpret Grimm's Fairy Tales? Same result.

:huh:

Chili

Because myth is true and the truth that is found in myth is real and therefore eternally true. This may be a different concept of real in that it is not historic but it did come into existence in history as an expansion of truth for the benefit of the civilization itself.

Grimm's fairy tales are good to read. I never have but they sure will not tell you that reading them will get you to heaven when you die.

Chili

So what do you think inspired means? God-breathed? What a crock that is and pity full that after 6000 years we still do not know what it means.

Their stories are transparent and can overshadow all mythologies.