DBT

What's wrong with Westcott and Hort? Why are they more likely to be wrong?
Nobody's making accusations. It's only a discussion.
'Before' leaves the time of their deaths open, it may be years, and they may live out their allotted three score and ten. But 'until' suggests that they may die soon after the coming of the Son of Man...a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. Is scripture so hard to interpret that nobody can determine the true meaning of a simple verse? If the verse says that ''some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” - does it not mean exactly what it says? If it does not, how is anyone supposed to understand its 'true' meaning?

Jayrok

Do you honestly believe the Jews will build a temple anywhere on any holy mountain and proceed to sacrifice animals to the Hebrew God with the permission of this person... during our generation?

:funny: You can't be serious.

Jayrok

Have you not read all of Isaiah? The servant is clearly identified as the nation of Israel (See: Isaiah 41:8-13; 42:1-9; 42:18-25; 43:8-13; 44:1-5; 44:21-22; 49:1-12; 50:4-11 and 52:13-53:12)

Israel is specifically identified as the suffering servant in Isaiah. You need not look further than Isaiah chapter 1 to see the theme Isaiah is presenting:

Isaiah 1:4-6 -- Ah, sinful nation,
a people loaded with guilt,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the LORD;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.

5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.

6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness—
only wounds and welts
and open sores, not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.


He, of course, is talking about Israel being exiled. But his theme is obvious to anyone who will simply read. Israel is God's chosen servant and this servant is punished for Idol worship and exiled. Isaiah's motif is to use expressions such as the nation being beaten from its head to its feet. Welts and wounds and open sores.

Isaiah is not describing the Jewish messiah.

But even as a nation, being exiled and punished, God promised to restore Israel. And in Isaiah 53:11-12 God proclaims that the servant (Israel) will be given a portion among the great and will divide the spoils with the strong.

A portion? He will divide the spoils with the strong? How can this be Jesus? For Jesus' act of sacrifice he only gets a "Portion" among the great? If Jesus is God's son, nay... even God himself, how does he only get a portion?

The servant is Israel as a nation.

Huon

So, the god you worship is like a wolf... Eh, eh ...

sugarhitman

I didnt say ANY Holy Mountian...for there is only one....Jerusalem. The Beast will establish a short peace between Israel and the Arabs. I believe a compromise will be made that will allow the Mosque to remain and a Jewish Temple built somewhere ON the Holy Mountain. No one knows for certain how this will be done.

And read what Paul says "When they shall say Peace and Saftey, sudden destruction shall come upon them." This is directly related to the Beast and Global Goverment. In Revelations we read "Who is like the beast and who can make war against him." Compare this with Daniel 8: 25, "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY...." In other words Peace will be forced through wars. Right now in our generation this is the excuse for many wars. The Peace and Security movement is also in effect (To the christian reader, we should be aware of those promoting peace and unity, this movement is a deception). Global Government is right around the corner.

"Whether you like it or not you shall have global goverment"---Max Warburg

"Many people accuse me of being part of a cabal, a conspiracy, to bring in World Government. If this is what they accuse me of then I amit to it...and I am not ashamed."----David Rockefeller in his book of Memoirs (not exactly qouted word for word, in fact it was a more blatent in your face confession, it sent chills down my spine the way he confessed. So much for the so-called conspiracy nuts)

I can quote many powerful men and organizations who admit to working towards this end. They are very serious about this, and worse they know that Americans will not accept this and they do not care.

1. Israel restored
2. Peace and safety Movement
3. Wars to force internationalism on "Drop out" countries.
4. Dispute over Land and Jerusalem
5. Globalization

Trust me if these things were not written in the bible I would not give heed to it. But they are and are strinkingly accurate. So much so I don't see how anyone can deny it. Something is going on, which the every day man and woman has been intentionally blinded too.

GenesisNemesis

Not quoted word for word? Did you get lazy all of the sudden? Curiosly, Google came up with no hits on that particular quote. Google. Did you make it up?

Of course you can, but that is no support for the Bible. They do not say "I am the Beast in the flesh". The Bible doesn't even say "and thus, there shall be a world government two-thousand years from now!" Why couldn't it say the exact date and time when it would happen? It's the same thing with Nostradamus's "prophecies". He supposedly predicted the rise of Hitler, but in his quatrains, he says "Hister". "Why not just say Hitler?" is the same as asking "Why couldn't it say the exact date and time when it would happen?"

sugarhitman

Try Googling David Rockefeller world government conspiracy confession book of Memoirs. I bought the book then loaned it to a friend of mine. I also have a book written by John Perkins title "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" which is also very revealing stuff. Anyways who said anything about these people saying that they are the beast? I did find something interesting though. Benjamin Creme. Who says that Lord Matreya is about to appear. Benjamin Creme works very closely with the U.N. (I know very nutsy stuff, but they are serious), Benjemin says this is the World Leader who is to come to bring peace to the world. Crazy stuff, but the U.N. certainly believes him. Mere coincedense?

The Bible does say that there will be a World Government, it does not give us the date because even Jesus does not know the day or hour when he will return. This is why He did not single out any specific generation to witness His return, He only knew that the generation in which the signs appeared would be that generation to witness His return. And the signs could have appeared in any generation and age (but they didnt, it appears that they are in ours).
This also may explain why bible prophecy symbols are not literal (like "sword" which means war. Arrows, bows, chariots are used to represent weapons. It does not mean that they will be the weapons used) Because noone (Except God the Father) knows the age and day and hour when all is fulfilled. :wave:

GenesisNemesis

And those signs (for example, "there will be wars and famine", things which have always happened in the history of mankind), are, amazingly, ambiguously produced. If God really wanted the Bible to be infallible it shouldn't be so damned mysterious, calling for mounds of information and data-gathering in order to support modern paranoia based on religious ideology.

DrewDiggler

Holy heck ! Has someone told the vatican ?

And pardon, but what is happening here?
Are the disciples not Christians? :huh:

Doug Shaver

Actually, most of us don't believe he really said it. The question of what he would have meant if he had said it is therefore moot.