johngalt

Im not sure if this belongs here or in the EoG board, so if it doesn't please move it somewhere else. At my college im taking a class called Foundation of Western Thought: Renaissance to Modern. We read many different texts and the class is discussion based. Today we were discussing a text by Luther, entitled Christian Liberty. We discussed the many different key points and the I started thinking about why people are religious. One of the people in the class said that he agreed with Luther's view that people only need faith and love to be part of a religion. Now I don't think this is all that Luther said after reading, it seems more complicated then that, but I guess my main point was that people need some sort of reward to be part of a religion. We went back and forth, but his reasoning did not seem to make sense to me, because if I was part of a religion, which I am not, then I would not be part of it without some sort of reward.

To clarify what I mean by a reward, I mean to say that I liken the reward of a religion to the promise of an afterlife or heaven (depending on what religion you are). Without this promise of an afterlife or a heaven, I think that most people of this world would not be part of any established religion. If you look at the Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, there is a similar concept of heaven. Buddhism and Hinduism have the concept of Nirvana. Confucianism and Taoism, the way I was taught, are more of a way of life than a religion (please correct me if I'm wrong). I realize that these are not a lot of the religions of the world, but these are the most popular ones. But getting back to the subject at hand, I do not think that there would be many of the established religions without some sense of an afterlife or heaven.

Having said this, I would just like some comments and thoughts about this, because I am really interested in what people have to say about this.

Toto

There is no Biblical reference here, and it seems to be more of a sociology of religion question than a question of the existence of god(s). I think it would do better in GRD.

I think that the "reward" that most people get from religion is just belonging to a group here on earth, which can lead to a lot of social, economic, and political benefits. The reward in the afterlife is just a gimmick to keep the group together.

badger3k

Well, there is the "reward" part of the carrot and stick. The reward of "existence in Heaven" is countered by the stick of "eternity in hell", and is used to influence behavior.

That said, I'm not sure if humans can act out of ultimate altuism, as even when you do something for "no reward" you can usually find a reward somewhere (even if it is only satisfaction or feeling good about yourself). Not all rewards have to be material. In that way, everything might be considered as being done for a reward. We post here for a variety of reasons, but can anyone honestly say there is no reward for being here?

I'm not sure of Confucianism, but there are forms of religious Taoism, just as there are more religious forms of Buddhism (I follow more of the philosophical form, more or less). I do agree with Toto that there are social and cultural rewards for belonging to a group that may make up for any lack of reward in an afterlife (although I do believe that without those rewards and punishments, those religions would be different).

Capn_Danger

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Hell, why do people do anything? They get something out of it: even if it's some sort of abstract mental satisfaction.

Believing is rewarding because it's comforting, and assuring. Life seems much more managable when we can readily explain it. We humans like certainty: we want to find answers to questions, and to make things fit nicely together, to able to explain the world: that gives us a sense of power or control over our lives. And we like the idea that we have some sort of divinely mandated purpose, that we're somehow special among everything else in this world.

Belief is often it's own reward.

johngalt

I don't know how many theists would agree with this statement. I still stick to my position that if you take away the afterlife from many of these religions, there would be almost no followers.

Capn_Danger

The afterlife plays a big part in it; I wouldn't doubt that. I'm just saying that they get more out of it than just that. Pyschics might not have anything to say about an afterlife (they usually don't, though many believe in past lives), but still have plenty to offer psychologically. People eat that stuff up at $3.95 per minute; I don't there's much different about that and religion when you talk about why people get involved.

Godless Wonder

I've noticed that whenever the topic of my atheism comes up around the average Christian around here, it doesn't take very long at all for Pascal's wager to pop up. Two or three minutes, tops.

Typically phrased something like this: "Well, if I'm wrong, nothing happens, but if you're wrong, you're going to hell." (Accompanied by agitated body language.)

I think it's not so much the hope for reward, as an intense fear they paradoxically (but only partially) avoid by embracing the religion which creates the fear. If you ask them directly if they believe because they are afraid not to, they will say no, but you have to wonder when they are so quick to throw Pascal's wager.