Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Minimalist · 02-08-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Fine. Since the minimalist school of biblical thought is that the bible is only fictional stories and anything in the bible must be verified by archaelogical evidence please answer the following question. Is there any archaelogical evidence that Nebby attacked the mighty fortress Island Tyre for 13 years or is this merely a non-event?

The archaeological evidence is that the city continued to exist and prosper until Alexander the Great came along with some serious military engineers.

The textual reference is this comment from Josephus.

Quote:

Diocles also, in the second book of his Accounts of Persia, mentions this king; as does Philostrates in his Accounts both of India and of Phoenicia, say, that this king besieged Tyre thirteen years, while at the same time Ethbaal reigned at Tyre. These are all the histories that I have met with concerning this king.

Babylonian sources seem to be silent as kings rarely extol their failures.

(Josephus Antiquities Book X, Chapter 11.) Note that Josephus gives his sources for this information.

arnoldo · 02-08-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

Quote:

The waves of the sea coming one after the other

300 years apart? Some waves.

And the city still exists today. It existed in the Hellenistic and Roman periods. It existed in the Byzantine period, it existed in the Islamic period. and the Crusader period and the Ottoman period.

In fact, it may well be the longest lasting place that was ever totally destroyed in all of history!

Richmond, Virginia exists today also. Does that mean that the Capital of the Confederacy continue to exist as well? Besides your are neglecting that prophecy is not strictly linear. It can also be prophetic toward various points in time of the future. Please note Zekey 28 which illustrates this concept.

Quote:

Again the word of the LORD came to me saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD,
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’

Minimalist · 02-08-2008, 10:31 AM

You're getting desperate, my friend. Your god claimed that Tyre would never be re-built and it has been re-built. Numerous times.

All of your 'spinning for jesus' cannot wipe away the obvious failure of this 'prophecy.'

Johnny Skeptic · 02-08-2008, 12:20 PM

Message to arnoldo: If a God exists, there are not any doubts whatsoever that he has not tried to convince people to believe that he can predict the future. If he did, he could easily have convinced everyone in the world thousands of years ago to believe that he can predict the future. Now really, if President Bush could predict anything that he wanted to predict, in less than a month, he could easily convince over 90% of Americans to believe that he can predict the future. If God really intended for the Jews' return to Palestine to be a sign to Jews and non-Jews, he could easily have made many indisputable predictions about that issue. There is not one single indisputable prophecy in the Bible. Why is that? By "indisputable," I mean a prophecy that would convince over 90% of the people in the world that the prophecy was made by a non-human, possibly a God. An example of an indisputable prophecy would be a prediction when and where a natural disaster would occur that came true. By "when," I mean month, day, and year. No human can make a prediction like that. Was it you or sugarhitman who said that indisputable prophecies would not convince anyone? The question is, "would not convince anyone of what?" If God predicted when and where a natural disaster would occur, that would certainly convince a lot of people that he could predict the future, but it would not convince everyone who believed that he can predict the future to accept him, nor should it since there is not a necessary correlation between power and good character.

When evaluating the character of any being, motives are everything. No reasonable motives for God predicting the future = no God of the Bible. If all of the Gods of all religious books do no exist, that explains why no religious book contains one single indisuptable prophecy.

spin · 02-08-2008, 12:35 PM

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02-08-2008, 10:31 AM	#243
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	You're getting desperate, my friend. Your god claimed that Tyre would never be re-built and it has been re-built. Numerous times. All of your 'spinning for jesus' cannot wipe away the obvious failure of this 'prophecy.'

02-08-2008, 12:20 PM	#244
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to arnoldo: If a God exists, there are not any doubts whatsoever that he has not tried to convince people to believe that he can predict the future. If he did, he could easily have convinced everyone in the world thousands of years ago to believe that he can predict the future. Now really, if President Bush could predict anything that he wanted to predict, in less than a month, he could easily convince over 90% of Americans to believe that he can predict the future. If God really intended for the Jews' return to Palestine to be a sign to Jews and non-Jews, he could easily have made many indisputable predictions about that issue. There is not one single indisputable prophecy in the Bible. Why is that? By "indisputable," I mean a prophecy that would convince over 90% of the people in the world that the prophecy was made by a non-human, possibly a God. An example of an indisputable prophecy would be a prediction when and where a natural disaster would occur that came true. By "when," I mean month, day, and year. No human can make a prediction like that. Was it you or sugarhitman who said that indisputable prophecies would not convince anyone? The question is, "would not convince anyone of what?" If God predicted when and where a natural disaster would occur, that would certainly convince a lot of people that he could predict the future, but it would not convince everyone who believed that he can predict the future to accept him, nor should it since there is not a necessary correlation between power and good character. When evaluating the character of any being, motives are everything. No reasonable motives for God predicting the future = no God of the Bible. If all of the Gods of all religious books do no exist, that explains why no religious book contains one single indisuptable prophecy.

02-08-2008, 12:35 PM	#245
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747

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