ph2ter

Knowing that the bees were sacred animals in ancient Greece (and not only in Greece), I find interesting to note that eunuch priests at Ephesus temple of Artemis were called essenes - drones.

At Ephesus, Artemis was associated with the bee as her cult animal. In fact, the whole organization of the sanctuary in classical times seems to have rested on the symbolic analogy of a beehive, with swarms of priestesses called bees, melissai, and numerous eunuch priests called 'drones', essenes (Barnet 1956)
(Taken from The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images (or via: amazon.co.uk) By Marija Gimbutas)

A. B. Cook, in his Zeus, tells that the histiatores or 'entertainers' of Artemis at Ephesus were called by the citizens essenes, a title that properly denotes 'king bees'.

Then, came to my mind the idea that the essenes of Artemis could be connected somehow with the Jewish class or sect known by the same name - the Essenes (Greek: Εσσηνοι, Εσσαιοι, or Οσσαιοι; Essēnoi, Essaioi, Ossaioi). The Hebrew or Aramaic equivalent of the name of this sect is unknown. It is also possible that the name was the same as in Greek.
The Greek and the Jewish Essenes lived a celibate life.
According to Josephus, the Jewish Essenes had customs and observances such as collective ownership, elected a leader to attend to the interests of them all whose orders they obeyed, were forbidden from swearing oaths and sacrificing animals, controlled their temper and served as channels of peace, carried weapons only as protection against robbers, had no slaves but served each other and, as a result of communal ownership, did not engage in trading.
Curiously, Josephus also says that they preserve secrets (which secrets?), and are very mindful of the names of the angels kept in their sacred writings. Pliny relates in a few lines that the Essenes do not marry, possess no money, and had existed for thousands of generations (!!!).

Someone can see in this descriptions also some analogy with the beehive.

That was already noticed by some:

Essenes: the elect of Israel and the priests of Artemis (or via: amazon.co.uk), by Allen H. Jones
"The Cult of Artemis and the Essenes in Syro-Palestine," by John Kampen DEAD SEA DISCOVERIES, Volume 10 Number 2 2003

Has anybody read that books?

mountainman

PAUSANIAS 8. 13.1 - DESCRIPTION OF GREECE, translated by W. H. S. JONES

Also from The Coinage of Ephesus

ph2ter

Thanks to mountainman for the citations.

The bees are very important in almost all mythologies. Their products like honey and wax were sacred (actually, wax is sacred even today - every candle in the churches is made of wax). After mating with a queen bee, a drone will soon die because the penis and associated abdominal tissues are ripped from the drone's body at sexual intercourse. This is paralleled with the myth of Cybele and Attis who was the lover of Cybele in Phrygian and Lydian mythology. Attis was castrated like a drone and because of this his priest were eunuchs.

Possible connection of the Essenes with the bees gives certain significance to the diet of John the Baptist. Mark says:
This is indication that John the Baptist was probably a former Essene.

John the Baptist’s “Wild Honey” and “Honey” in Antiquity by James A. Kelhoffer:

Bee honey at Qumran

The Damascus Documenta (Zadokite Fragment) attests the practice of eating roasted or boiled locusts/grasshoppers at Qumran.14 James H. Charlesworth’s argument that the similarities to the Baptist’s diet illustrate that John ate like a former Essene is not credible, however, since neither locusts/grasshoppers nor honey are distinctive foods.15 Furthermore, CD 12:12 in fact forbids eating the bees’ larvae, not the honey they produce. These objections to Charlesworth’s thesis notwithstanding, the proscription against consuming the larvae of bees in CD 12:12 presupposes that some members of this community have sufficient contact with bees to have opportunity to eat them. Those same Jews who should refrain from eating bees would presumably have chances to partake of bee honey, which the Damascus Document does not proscribe.
Moreover, Hypothetica 11.8, which Eusebius of Caesarea attributes to Philo of Alexandria, makes explicit such a characterization of the Essenes:

mountainman

Essenes never existed, were a Josephan invention, claims Rachel Elior

Question (0): Suppose the "Jewish Essenes" never existed?
Question (1): Were the "Jewish" Essenes another interpolated "Jewish-like nation" into Josephus (ie: in addition to the "Christians")?
Question (2): Were the "Essenes of Ephesus" related to the "therapeutae of Asclepius" - ie: Graeco-Roman "Essenes"?
Question (3): Who stood to gain the most out of the fabrication of literature pertaining to "old Jewish nations"?
Question (4): Why do we rely upon Eusebius for "history"?

aa5874

That Josephus invented the Essenes is chronologically implausible.

Philo wrote about the Essenes before Josephus.

And there is an independent source for the Essenes, Pliny the Elder who identified them in a geographical location not mentioned by Josephus.

mountainman

That Josephus invented the testimony to "Jesus Henry" is chronologically implausible.
The evidence presented in this thread suggests that the "Essenes" were Graeco-Roman.
No corroborating evidence has been found for "Jewish Essenes" .... except "Eusebian claims".

The writings of Philo may have suffered the same fate as Josephus.

When Josephus was interpolated who controlled the imperial archives aa5874? "The fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness"

aa5874

That the "Essenes" were Graeco-Roman is not supported by Philo, Josephus or Pliny the Elder.

What is the corroborating non-interpolated evidence for Graeco-Roman "Essenes?

A very interesting claim. Well, your source for Graeco-Roman "Essenes'' may have suffered too.

But, are you implying that Julian's "Against the Galileans" was interpolated by those who controlled the imperial archives?

This is Julian in "Against the Galileans"See http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/ju...ans_1_text.htm

Did those who controlled the imperial archives write "Against the Galileans"?

mountainman

The corroborating evidence is mentioned in the first two posts of this thread and relates to the followers of Artemis at Ephesus.

This is possible of course however I suspect that Pausanius was not preserved by the 4th century "christians" who appear to be very fond of Josephus and Philo --- perhaps precisely **because** they were Jewish sources. In any event it would seem quite certain that in wandering around Greece, Pausanias did not happen to record the presence of any "Christian Shrines" or "Christian Churches".

The 4th century "Christians" also appear to have had a pressing and very open agenda of establishing the precedence of the Jewish antiquity over and above that of the Greeks --- See Eusebius about this.


No of course not - in the case of Julian's "Against the Christians" it was imperially CENSORED by those who controlled the imperial archives. In the end all we have is the Bishop Cyril's Refutation of Julian. What Julian said was not interpolated, it was totally censored and "refuted" by experienced "Anathemetizer and Censor" Cyril. Julian has been reconstructed from "Against Julian".

Rather I am implying that the forgeries in Josephus concerning the laying of fabricated evidence for the existence of this "Tribe of Christians extant even unto Josephus's day" was fraudulently planted by Eusebius in the rule of Constantine. Julian later refers to the "fabrication of the "Christians".

We may regard the term used by Julian "Galilaeans" to be translated explicitly by "Christians" since the emperor Julian legislated that they were to be known by that name while he was in power.

At the end of the day, the only evidence available for the presence of a group called the "Essenes" appears to stem from the Graeco-Roman culture at the city of Ephesus. There are great parallels between these "Essenes" and the "Therapeutae of Asclepius". None of these groups are remotely "Jewish".

aa5874

But, a single source cannot be a corroborating source of itself. You must provide some other source. Pausanius made certain claims about Essenes that you have not corroborated.

The claims by Philo about Essenes appear to be corroborated by Josephus and Pliny.

But, once you examine "Church History" by Eusebius it will be quickly realised that the writings of Philo and Josephus were not really helpful to Eusebius in fabricating the fraudulent history of the Church.

The use of Philo and Josephus is a blatant case of manipulation and mis-representation of those authors writings.


Well, if Julian's "Against the Galileans" was not interpolated then may be not all writings that were in the imperial archives were manipulated. So at least we know what a writing would contain when it is not re-worked by the Church.

Well, you are yet to provide the corroborating source for Pausanius unless you believe what he wrote is inerrant.

I must remind you that there are three sources for Jewish Essenes in Philo, Josephus and Pliny.

I don't think that Pliny the elder was Jewish. And Eusebius did not mention Pliny. Pliny can be considered a corroborative source for Philo and Josephus.

mountainman

Pausanius is highly regarded as a source for archaeological sites and for other purposes and according to Studies in the ancient Greek polis By Mogens Herman Hansen, Kurt A. Raaflaub

"Using Pausanias for the sole purpose of locating known communities in Greece in the 2nd century CE may be relatively safe ...

And that's all we are doing here.
Asking the question "Who has heard of the Essenes"?

I must remind you that Josephus is known to have been interpolated for the express purpose of two separate things in the major TF:

(1) the existence of Jesus Henry Christ, and
(2) the existence of the "Tribe" or "Nation" of Christians.

Eusebius has added "The Nation of Christians" into Josephus.
Josephus did not author the contents of the TF: Eusebius did this.
Do you think Eusebius is capable of adding "The Nation of the Essenes" also?

Momigliano thought Eusebius may have been Jewish.

Eusebius did not mention alot of people.
Corroboration of Pliny's reference by others might be checked first.
In which century is Pliny's reference to "christians" first cited in the manuscript tradition?
In which century is Pliny's reference to "essenes" first cited in the manuscript tradition?

In any event, the greater dimension of corroboration rests with the field of archaeology. The archaeologists and others do not seem to be able to find any trace of the "nation of essenes". Why not?

Under the surface of this conundrum lurks an even greater mystery ... The archaeologists and others do not seem to be able to find any trace of the "nation of christians". Why not?

Eusebius is the first to start using the phrase "The Nation of Christians".
In Eusebius we Trust.