snapchamp

How do these Christians keep quoting C.S. Lewis with this crap about hell being a "separation from god" thing? How are they able to throw out all of the bible's fiery hell verses-can anyone post a couple? What is the typical atheist counter when they argue it is only a separation from god?

Karen M

Are you asking from a moral standpoint? The counters are about the same.

The eternal separation from God version usually isn’t that different from the eternal fire other more torturous versions of Hell. This is because the people who usually express the separation from God opinion are the same ones that like to claim the absence of God is complete agony in and of itself.

The “separation theory of Hell” is also strongly correlated to the “for Good to exist, you must be with God” and “Evil is simply the absence of Good” opinions. Thus, the separation from God leaves you eternally in complete agony in an absolutely evil environment. So, basically, it is still like Hell-fire; they just took the long route to get there.

Chili

I think it is more like having knowledge of God but never being quite close enough to commune with God. So it is in knowing God that absence from God becomes known and that would be like an eternal fire burning within.

Loomis

It’s your thread. It’s your allegation.

Why don’t you do it?

Diogenes the Cynic

The "fiery hell" thing isn't really a part of the Bible. A bunch of references to Gehenna, Sheol and Hades (all of which are often mistranslated as "hell") were both conflated and massgaed by popular imagination into the concept of an afterworld of eternal burning in torture.

Of course, the "separation from God" meme isn't in the Bible either. When everything is ubderstood in context, the Biblical claim for what happens to "bad" people is that they will ultimate be anihilated. Their punishment is that they won't recieve eternal life, not that they'll be eternally tormented.

Not all Christians believe in either hell or the old "separation from God" dodge (what does that even MEAN and why is it a bad thing?). Some do believe in the anihilation theory and others believe in universal salvation. For the real harcore fundies, though, the thought of going to heaven without also being able to see people get eternally tortured is just intolerable. A heaven without a hell just isn't heaven.

snapchamp

because I am on the other side of the world from where I live and I am currently in a debate online and wanted a good quick reference. Thanks for taking the time to post that, very helpful

Diogenes the Cynic

Like I said, the verses that are typically quoted don't actually refer to the popular Christian concept of hell when understood in their original language and cultural context.
It's an assertion which doesn't require a counter other than "prove it."

You could also ask them for a Biblical citation which would support their assertion, but you're probably only going to get a couple of quotes referring to people being cast into "the outer darkness," which they will argue (only by assertion) means separation from God.

GakuseiDon

FWIW, I'm an annihilationist. I like the logic: "If God is everywhere, then to choose to be separated from God is to be nowhere", thus such people wish themselves out of existence. Philosophically pleasing, but I don't know of any real scriptural support for the view.

judge

qw

Loomis

Yep. The Jehovah’s Witnesses have that part right: The “good guys” live for eternity on earth.

See Psalm 37.