show_no_mercy

I've read snippets here and there in BC&H where it was believed that Yahweh and El were two separate 'gods', and then later on in the history of Judaism they were "merged". Can anyone give me any insight on this utilizing quotes from the OT? Does the "Elohim" include Yahweh?

Loomis

Hi there. I bet you are referring to some of my posts.

When it comes to this subject, I really like the writings of Lloyd Barre. I think he is light years ahead of anyone else.

Begin here:

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/God/el-goi.htm

Back in the late 90s Barre made some great posts to lists.ibiblio.org. Here’s a fine example:

Debuking Syncretism in the OT

These links are good too.

http://www20.brinkster.com/theword/origins/moses2.html

http://www20.brinkster.com/theword/origins/sons.html

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/...Monotheism.htm

http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html

Also read these. They don’t all agree with each other, but they are fine food for thought.

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=2053

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bibl...anaan-gods.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/canaanite-faq.html

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/El_(god)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god)

http://www.winternet.com/~swezeyt/bi...s/swezoed0.htm

http://www.div.ed.ac.uk/other/ugarit/texts/welcome.htm

http://www.biblicalstudies.ru/OT/44.html

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/y/yahweh.html

http://www.bibleorigins.net/YahwehYawUgarit.html

As it turns out, El used to get drunk at parties, and Yahweh was a desert god who sacrificed children.

No kidding.

Over time Yahweh and El got thrown into a blender (like David Hedison and a fly in a transporter accident), and they got combined into one big monotheistic god.

Yahweh appears to have borrowed a lot from Baal too, but that is a (slightly) different subject.

Loomis

Yes and no. It just depends on who you ask. For example, Psalm 8:5 says Yahweh created the elohim (plural).

But in many other places the Bible says that Yahweh was one of the elohim. Specifically, the elohim of Israel.

Abandon the notion that the OT can provide one single unified answer to your question. It’s fiction, and the various authors, redactors, and translators, did not agree on who or what “God� was.

I guarantee it.

MagiNoir

Other ancient Jewish gods include Baal and Ashera. They were just like the Greeks and the Egyptians and had lot of lovely gods.
Interesting note in my bible is the Genesis god is referred to as Lord God which sounds like the boss of the Jewish gods.
:notworthy

John Kesler

Here are but two:
Loomis has given you a good start for your study of this issue. As the Ugaritic tablets make clear, El was the high god of the West Semitic pantheon. Exodus 6:2-3 attempts to merge Yahweh and El, the latter of whom was worshiped by the patriarchs.

"Elohim" is a multifaceted word which included, but was not limited to, "gods."
Yahweh was the elohim of Israel just as Chemosh was the elohim of Moab, Marduk was the elohim of Babylon, etc.

Loomis

Hey John Kesler,

Check this out:

1) There is no word is in Biblical Hebrew.

2) The string El, the God of Israel does not express a complete thought and is not a sentence. Why would Jacob call his altar El, the God of Israel?

If we apply the same rules to Genesis 33:20 that were used back in verse 18, then we get the following:

It makes a lot more sense this way.

Doesn’t it. :thumbs:

John Kesler

Possibly, but not necessarily. To my surprise, Mark S. Smith only refers to this verse once in The Origins of Biblical Monotheism and not at all (unless I overlooked a reference to it) in The Early History of God. However, Professor John Day states the following in Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan, page 37, British punctuation retained: